this rotting meat thats been used as an excuse....arent the mcconns, whilst on holiday, fans on dining out at tapas bars and the like?

gerrys blogs at the time, did he ever metion they stayed in and cooked a meal?

if they went out for meals then why have meat?

In the immediate days and weeks after Madeleine disappeared they had constant friends and family by thier side. As the apartment they were staying in had full kithchen facilities and they wouldn't get any privacy in restaurantrs with the media presence its reasonable they cooked .

With all that cadaver smell around perhaps they hadn't noticed it was rotting until it was too late.

fair point.

But, being in an apartment, surely there were local areas to dispose of trash....Surely guests there were not expected to haul off their own trash...When I have been on vacation, rooms/apartments are usually cleaned daily by staff unless we request not to....if we order food late at night, we leave trays outside door, or if we need trash emptied, we called for room service. I certainly wouldn't haul my trash off in the car...I would have left it there!

Yes thats reasonable but does anyone know when this statement about the wrotting meat was made- any link source.So many things we just dont know the veracity of. Same thing with Cuddlecat being taken to work with KM -when/in which context was this reported. If we knew how these things came into the public domain it would (imo) be easier to discern what might be likely and what is just made up.

Lol, well I think me taking off my garbage would be more credible than taking CC to work....I mean, the woman should know that taking CC to work would pose the threat of germs??? Well, I guess taking off rotting meat does to, now that I think about it

The rotting meat thing was reported in various newspapers, but whether there was a named source or not I can't remember. It doesn't matter anyway, because there's no way Eddie would ever mix up the smell of rotting meat with the specific scent of a dead human being. Dogs trained to pick up human corpse scent are specifically trained to ignore all scents of other dead creatures, so Eddie could find a dead human smell in an abattoir.

Is it Eddie who's doing such good work in Jersey at the minute? I saw a springer spaniel on the news but they do all tend to look a bit alike so I couldn't be 100% sure it was him (I haven't that uncanny ability possessed by so many of those who have been 100% certain they've seen Madeleine. )

i thought it was eddie.

smart dog whoever he/she is.

must admit, on this subject, my OH does take our garbage to work with him and sneaks it into their industrial bins that are collected frequently save stinking up our kitchen with pooy-nappies and the like.

I read somewhere that is was Eddie

Does rotting meat have the smell of desperation?

On one of the Programmes on Television a Local Woman talked about all the bins around the area and there were loads of them, why did the McCann's not just go to or stop at one of the Bins and put all the rotting meat and dirty nappies in one of these, how much food would you accumulate in a week to throw away when they ate out every night Gerry's words, One bag full of nappies perhaps but its not a usual thing to do to store dirty nappies.

I find it hard to believe that while you are on your Holiday that you would have to go to the dump to dispose of your trash like the McCann's said they did, still they had to think of some excuse.

i said garbage im not american. not that theres owt wrong with our american cousins but i should have said rubbish.

anddo you know how bad dirty nappies of the xxxx variet stink? especially in warm weather. jesus christ. last year, and we had a c*** summer here in the uk, we put ours (2 year olds not mine, im out of them ) in a bin in the back garden the stench was so bad (weekly bin collections). so i cannot see the mcconns loading up a car with them, surely a car getting warm is like microwaving a bag of shoite?

They didn't know where the Church was, but managed to find the local dump?

With all the stories disappearing from the papers I doubt I'll be able to trace the original stories re meat and cuddlecat but the cadaver dog evidence is undoubdetly damming and these dogs dont react to a bit of silverside. So if the McCanns did use this as an excuse it seems incredibly dumb. What sort of advice are all these expensive briefs giving them.??

Was there not some report in the press saying that the fridge in the villa where they stayed after the MW resort went bad, and this was why Gerry had to haul away rotting meat? If I recall correctly, the report said that the owner was not aware of any malfunction with the refrigerator.

It wouldn't matter if they had rotten meat in their car at all.

Cadaver dogs like the ones used in this case are specifically trained not to react to any type of rotting meat or garbage. They are only rewarded for human remains.

A dog like that can find a dead body ten feet underground, even if buried under garbage. They can find a "baby tear" on a football field.

Their noses are literally 10,000 times more powerful than a human's nose.

What they found in that car was cadaverine, or one of the other hormones associated with human death, or human blood, or a part of a human being.

Very true, and I thought they were so religious yet Gerry never knew where the Church was, so Kate or Gerry had not been during that week then ummm.

Yes, I think the weird thing is that so called educated people like the McCanns who both have basic medical training would come away with such a stupid excuse- which is why I'm interested in finding out if we can truly attribute the meat comment to the McCanns.

It certainly is and Keela

<!-- m -->http://web.archive.org/web/20080302125159/http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23441090-details/Bodies+of+six+children+may+be+buried+at+abuse+scandal+orphanage/article.do<!-- m -->

Hi Dinsie, ITA with you. This article hits some of these points, but what it boils down to is a human recovery detection dog like Eddie is looking for a certain chemical signature, and that combination of chemicals which makes a unique 'death scent' is what attracts Eddie to the location.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080302125159/http://www.csst.org/cadaver_scent.html
This article really deals with detecting disease in humans. But it is the same principle. Odors which are a combination of chemicals waft thru the air in layers, and the dog continually takes little sniffs. When they compare the strength of the scent in both nostrils, fine-grained pinpointing of odor is achieved. And then he alerts.


http://web.archive.org/web/20080302125159/http://landofpuregold.com/sniffers.htm
This article about a test project explains how after death the blood and muscle tissues in a body begin.to break down and change chemically. That break down starts immediately upon death and can be sniffed by a dog from 15 min up to 2 hours after death for post mortem detection.


Each body is different, so that as we each start to decay, our combination of chemicals is unique to us, and therefore we all have our own death scent. Just an interesting note.

But it drives me nuts to hear about a human remains recovery dog alerting to the odor of a hunk of meat. To smell rotting meat and alert to it they would have had to have been given the chemical fingerprint of that odor. IMO and with much reading done on the subject ;}

Hi Ejm, What makes Keela so exceptional, besides her being able to alert to tiny spots of blood, is that she also can differentiate between blood from a live person and one who is dead.

That is unusual from what I have read and is why they make such a dynamic team. Eddie has worked 200 cases, all with success, and I would venture a guess Keela was right there too!

Hi Shoperoo, As I remember it was a Portuguese official. It had to be an offhanded remark as he certainly is not educated in the science of sniffer dogs! LOL

Which Portuguese official would be making excuses on behalf of the McCanns?

Unpleasant thought though it is, the work the dogs are doing in Jersey at present blow a big hole in the McStory. If human remains can be indicated in such difficult conditions, after so many years, then last year's work in Portugal would have been a breeze for Eddie and Keela.

That is what I thought but went to find out. I know there were some incorrect statements made about the dogs and it could have been from the British press. Sorry!

So far it is the McCanns who put rotting beat out there:

<!-- m -->http://web.archive.org/web/20080302125159/http://tinyurl.com/26uyz5<!-- m -->
TIMES ONLINE article:

"Tonight the McCanns insisted that there was an “innocent explanation” for the reason sniffer dogs detected the presence of human bodies in their Portuguese hire car. A source said that the Renault Mégane Scenic was used to ferry rubbish bags containing rotting meat and other rubbish back and forth from a nearby tip.

“There were not proper dustbins at the villa and as a result the family had to regularly transport their household waste including rotting food, rotting meat and soiled nappies to a communal disposal area,” the source continued.

“Basically the vehicle was used as a rubbish lorry for the family, so there would potentially have been the scent of rotting flesh, human excrement and urine. Who’s to say that the nappy bag didn’t leak?” The source said that Kate and Gerry McCann’s legal team were “working in a vacuum” trying to prepare any defence for the couple, due to a lack of information they have received from Portuguese authorities."

Indeed, Bonny - 7" under concrete and who knows how much further they can detect down.

Isn't it odd how the coincidences seemed to be working in the McCann's favour for so long and confusing the issue, much to Gerry McCann's voiced delight.

But, just recently, the coincidences (LCN DNA clearance, just one example) seem to be working in the PJs favour and against the McCanns. About time too, imo.

well dear snivel ~ what possessed you to say garbage ? pretty soon you'll be talking about how horrible diapers smell

--



kez ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

those dogs are phenomenal

It's very telling that after the cadaverous dogs pointed to kate and the boot of the scenic, that rather than just dismiss the allegations out of hand, the mccanns had ACTUAL reasons as to why the dogs reacted.

Never mind the the reasons themselves were completely ridiculous, but if they were innocent, they would simply say the dogs HAD to be wrong.

I wonder, did they ever explain the scent of death on Kate's bible?

There was rumour of it being on either tanner's or o'briens clothes as well.

If innocent, I think the first reaction would be to desperately want to find out who hired the car previously. They wouldn't need any excuses in these circumstances.

So true!!

As discussed on another thread here 2nite, the sucess of Eddie in Guernsey will not help the McCanns defence.
Wonder if this story will prompt Clarence into a statement- thought I dont imagine what He could say that would help things.



THE GORGEOUS EDDIE

I've never understood why the rubbish would have had to be taken to a tip.
I live on the algarve, all be it in a different council area, and yes we have to take our rubbish personally to communal bins, but they are all within walking distance.
For example I go out of my front door and head left or right and within 20 paces I have access to rubbish bins.
Even out in the countryside bins are easily accesible without the need of transport.
In a warm climate it's necessary to remove smelly stuff away from your door every day.
The councils know this and so comply.

edited to add I want to adopt that beautiful dog!!

The Panorama docu, interestingly I thought, made a point repeatedly about how many bins were in the area. So regardless of whether they had plenty of meat or not it doesn't explain - logically - why they felt the need to transport this rotting meat in the wheel well of their car to the tip.

IMO it's classic backed into a corner excuse. You know your reasoning looks dodgy but there is nothing for it but to give the only other possible excuse there is for a cadaver dog picking up the scent of a corpse. The only other thing it could possibly have been is pork so they had no choice but to tell us they had rotting meat in the boot. They didn't bank on the cadaver dog being so skilled though and I'm sure such a valuable dog in terms of what he does will have been trained to tell the difference between pork and a human simply because the two can be confused.

I personally think they'd have been better off denying all knowledge of what the dog could have picked up on because no person in their right mind is going to believe they took an old joint of meat for a nice drive - not when there were so many bins, emptied daily.

Not least but can you imagine the stench of rotting meat and soiled nappies in heat like that? the car would have stunk to high heaven, you'd simply put both in one of the many bins provided. But handily the nappies 'explained away' the DNA and the meat the smell of the corpse how handy - or depending on how you look at it - how damn annoying that such items were confused for the scent of your dead daughter. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

Notably Clarence did not deny the dogs picked up on something, they just gave more of the usual spin and pre-emptive excuses as to why they are innocent (I now realise somebody must have been in the apartment, I now think the twins were drugged?)

.
Emma, I think your last paraqgraph reveals so much.

If the McCanns were innocent, the very first thing they would have been desperate to know is. who hired the car before they did?!?

Mitchell didn't deny the scent the dogs had found in the car, he just made ill-informed excuses. Eddie is trained to ignore anything other than the cadaver scent of HUMANS. He is also trained in enhanced alerting i.e. he is able to distinguish between individual human cadavers, which each have their own characteristic scent.

Mitchell's excuses revealed his ignorance.

Exactly, they should have done their research first or shut up and said nothing. Truly innocent peole would have been all wide eyed innocence and wtf??! innocent people wouldn't have tried to (lamely) explain the findings away. They'd have been completely honest in being totally stumped by it all.

So Kate, the part time GP smelled of death because she certified people dead - in holiday clothing? I recall my nan being certified dead at home and the doctor was wearing a suit and tie, their usual working attire... I'm sure even if they'd been called from home to come and do it if for no other reason than showing respect they'd turn up wearing smart clothes. And anyway, just how many people does she have to certify in a sleepy village in the immediate run up to her holiday? I'm sure this can be verified though. Let's not forget she must have taken cuddlecat with her too.

I just don't understand why they have so much high level support when there is so much on them, and we don't know the half of it.

Too many faces left with egg on if they're charged I think.

Bump

All this rotten meat cr*p came from Lily the Pink after the McConns fled Portugal after being made suspects. Every day he answered their 40 questions via the media.

so he didnt tip the rubbish just drove oit there and back?

What do you think they are actually saying when they say "Rotting meat and soiled nappies"?

I think I know what they mean.

I was just sort of thinking about things and I was wondering if there was a hospital near PDL and if it had an incinerator for clinical waste. Those rolls of yellow clinical waste bags are easy to get hold of but are the same ones used in Portugal? Does anyone know about this? or am I barking up the wrong tree!

I think anything is possible with the McConn crowd. I wouldn't have a clue about the bags though.

Decomposing cadaver and things used to wrap it.urrgg.but probable.IMO.~~
fishie


That should be -possible.

when you die you sh1t yourself so maybe theyre speaking of soiled nappies to excuse the finding of sh1t in the boot. and p1ss.

There can't be any rotting meat.Kate can't cook to save her life.

Does anybody know if a decomposing human organ would release the same cadaver smell as a corpse?

the dog was used in a famous case over here in N ireland.A poor lady was abducted coming from mass and murdered.the suspect had buried here in a shallow grave on a riverbank close to his house.It was eddie who found her a time after.

You can bet that if Eddie had failed to find remains, and it was found later, Clarrie would be on that like flies on *hit!!!!!!!! But maybe he's ill at the moment, unable to make a comment.

To clarify the waste arrangements in PDL makes me embarrassed by the systems we have in Britain.

The reason the the ongoing roadworks over 2007 was the installation of underground recycling bins
You have a collection of small bins on the surface - about pillar box size - labelled with appropriate re-cyling logos and your glass/plastic/electrical/household whatever vanishes into huge skips under the ground that are then emptied overnight

These sites are dotted all over PDL and no-one would have to walk more than a few hundred yards to find one. In the hotter temperatures of the Algarve you would not want to keep your rubbish for a week British-style.

Considering Gerry was running an airport taxi service - I do not believe that he would have ever had a day when the trash could not have gone out.

So IMO the "rotting meat and nappies" story was a hasty "spin" that had no thought input and will be demonstrated to have no substance in fact

Beautifully said Jill.

The only way a victim rescue dog like Eddie would alert to a rotting roast is if he had been given a sniff of it before he went on his search! IMO

Hi Magrat, I don't really know. But an educated guess would be they would have the same smell. A person has one 'death scent' and it wafts through the air in layers. The dog smells these different layers and when the smell in each nostril matches he has pinpointed the odour and he alerts. I put a link on pp 1 of this thread telling about that.

Thanks Scandi, I knew that the rotting roast was a load of b....x but I didn't realise that a cadaver could have a unique individual scent, in which case it is obvious that what Eddie scented in the apt was the same as in the car.

Bump

Bump