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| Title: TENNIS Table THURSDAY (with T9 Loctions) | |
| MadeleineMcCann > DISCREPANCIES > Thursday May 3rd | Go to subcategory： |
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TinLizzy
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Date Posted：05/30/2010 3:43 AMCopy HTML
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Re：TENNIS Table THURSDAY (with T9 Loctions) Date Posted：05/30/2010 3:44 AMCopy HTML KATE
Once the children were delivered, they went to the courts for a scheduled lesson. Kate’s group lesson was at 9:15, Gerry’s an hour later. She doesn’t know what Gerry did during that free hour; she presumes he went to the apartment. When her lesson ended at 10:15, she went to the recreation area next to the swimming to talk to Russell until Gerry’s lesson was over. Afterwards, she is not sure, they went back together to the apartment until close to 12:15 when she went to Madeleine’s crèche to pick her up, together with Fiona Payne. She signed the crèche's register and went to the twins’ crèche with the intention of picking them up, she thinks that she met Gerry there, not knowing if he already had the twins with him. Together with the three children they went to the apartment for lunch, with food bought at the supermarket. This would be around 12:35/12:40. They ate sandwiches, mainly the deponent and Gerry, and the children maybe ate pasta. Lunch lasted around 20 minutes. After finishing lunch they stayed for a while at the apartment, then they went to the recreation area next to the , as the children were somewhat restless, maybe tired and bored. They remained at this area for about an hour, maybe more, then they left the twins at the crèche next to the Tapas and both of them took Madeleine to the other crèche. They went via a path in front of the small reception and then through a garden area and stairs, taking a short cut. This route was indicated to her by Gerry. After leaving Madeleine at around 2:50 p.m., they both had, once more, a lesson, this time an individual one just for the two of them, so they started playing a few balls at that time, given the fact that the court was empty. She doesn’t remember if they were already wearing appropriate clothes or if they went to the apartment to change. The lesson ended an hour later, at around 4:30 p.m. Gerry continued playing with a guest called JULIAN who belonged to his group, while she went for a jog along the beach, for around half an hour. During that period she saw the rest of the group, children and grownups; she was disappointed as nobody had told her that they were going to the beach and Madeleine surely would have loved to have gone with them. She cannot confirm whether she went to the apartment between the game and the jog. When she finished jogging, at around 5:20/5:30 p.m., she went to the Tapas area. Gerry was there, as well as the twins and Madeleine who were having dinner at separate tables. Madeleine had been taken to the area by the nannies. Her parents were required to sign the register when the meal was over, at around 5.30 p.m.. During the meal Kate asked Madeleine if she was sad because the other children in the group had gone to the beach without her; she replied that she wasn’t, but was rather tired. She asked Kate to carry her back to the apartment. Kate agreed, and Gerry led the twins back to the apartment, as well. Tiredness was due to the intense daily activities, not to any sickness. They arrived at the apartment at around 5:40 p.m., earlier than usual, because Madeleine was tired, their other friends were at the beach and Gerry had an all-male game at 6:00 p.m. At the apartment they both bathed the children, and close to 6:00 p.m. Gerry went to the courts, right after the children had finished their bath. They entered the apartment by the main door, with the key. She does not know if it was locked, and presumes it was Gerry who opened it. At lunch time they also entered through the same door. After the children’s bath, already alone, she put pyjamas and nappies on the twins, and gave them each a glass of milk and biscuits. Before bathing the children and because it was early, they had thought of taking them to the recreation area, but then decided against this because of tiredness. While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes. After showering, at around 6:30/6:40 p.m. and while she was getting dry, she heard somebody knocking at the balcony door. She wrapped herself in a towel and went to see who was at the balcony door. This door was closed but not locked as Gerry had left through this door. She saw that it was David Payne, because he called out and had opened the door slightly. David’s visit was to help her to take the children to the recreation area. When David returned from the beach he was with Gerry at the courts, and it was Gerry who asked him to help Kate with taking the children to the recreation area, which had been arranged but did not take place. David was at the apartment for around 30 seconds, he didn’t even actually enter the flat, he remained at the balcony door. According to her he then left for the courts where Gerry was. The time was around 6:30-6:40 p.m. After David left, Kate dressed and sat with the children, Madeleine on her lap. She was wearing a top, she doesn’t remember what colour it was, a green long-sleeved t-shirt, blue denim trousers. Sports shoes and white socks. She read a story to the children in the living room, on the sofa in front of the balcony door, identified on the diagram with the letter D. At 7:00 p.m. Gerry arrived and entered through the balcony door. He sat on the sofa identified with letter E. She doesn’t know if the story was finished, but thinks she was still sitting on the sofa. ROB “’Went to the flat with E*** No, I didn’t leave Ev***the flat. It says ‘Went to the flat with E***whileshe was resting I went outside to watch Jane play ’. I think I was sat and, I went to the flat with E**erm, she, I think she did have a snooze that morning, erm, and I read a book and played with her and then, at some stage, I think when Jane had finished playing , I then went out with E** play ”. 1578 “Right. So we just need to add in there then?” Reply “Well if it just said that, you know, well E*camewith me to watch the , E*wasn’t in the flat on her own at that point during the day. ‘Went to the flat with E* read a book, later me and E*went outside to watch Jane play ’ full-stop. Maybe, ‘I believe I saw Madeleine at lunchtime’, I’m sure that, erm. And it says ‘I can’t recall if I collected El*or whether she was brought up by the Nannies, it’s all a bit hazy now’, I think I can probably say the Nannies did not bring the children back at the end of the morning session because there was no tea, they weren’t bringing them back sort of thing. So I think I can probably, I can probably clarify there that, erm, ‘Either Jane or I collected El*from the’, erm, ‘from the’, erm, ‘Ocean Club, Mini Club’”. Creche Records ROB 12.30 00.53.16 1578 “’Either Jane or I’?” Reply “Yeah, and it’s slightly out of order here now. The next paragraph, erm, yeah, the wording, it’s a bit, it’s a bit sort of, I mean, there’s, there’s such a kind of, you know, uncomfortable coincidences next, in this next, but this is out of order, this is before we have gone and collected E** So after I’ve gone out to play , erm, the next couple of paragraphs occur and then ‘We probably saw Madeleine at lunchtime and one of us probably collected El*so it’s slightly out of, it’s slightly out of synch this”. 1578 “So”. Reply “So these two paragraphs probably are going to go in at the point where I went outside to play ”. 1578 “Sorry, which two paragraphs?” Reply “Well the bit about the, erm”. 1578 “So those two paragraphs”. Reply “The chap on holiday, you know, feeling, erm, you know, awkward, taking a photograph of his daughter”. 1578 “Yes, they want to be slipped in?” Reply “They need to go at the end of ‘I went outside to watch Jane play ’ full-stop, because everything else is at lunchtime, this was actually before lunchtime. I think the wording here is a bit, is a bit, erm”. 1578 “In between ‘play ’ and ‘I believe I saw Madeleine at lunchtime’?” Reply “Yeah, yeah, so that’s coming, ‘I saw Madeleine at lunchtime’ and ‘Me or Jane collected El*from the Ocean Club’ will be a kind of, a later paragraph. No, this is wrong. Erm”. 00.54.54 1578 “Just bear with me a moment please”. Reply “I mean, the essence of it is right, but, but the”. 1578 “So we now go to?” Reply “’I recall’, I mean, it’s a bit, it doesn’t need the ‘I recall’. ‘After’, it’s actually ‘After Jane’”. 1578 “Are these the two paragraphs that we want to?” Reply “That we’ll be moving to, at the end of that (inaudible)?” 1578 “Yes”. Reply “It’s actually going to be ‘After Jane’s lesson’. Erm, you can actually delete ‘Madeleine was playing ’ at all, because, erm, it wasn’t Madeleine, Madeleine and E**a had done this the day before, erm”. 1578 “Okay. So I shall take out ‘I recall that Jane was having a lesson’?” Reply “It’s just ‘After Jane’s lesson’”. And then you can actually delete ‘Madeleine was playing , they were having a lesson’, because that, well it wasn’t Madeleine that day at all. Erm, it says ‘After Jane’s lesson’, I’ll try and preserve it as much as possible, ‘I recall that one of the guests’, erm, ‘a man from Southampton came up’ full-stop. ‘His daughter’, it was his three year old daughter, ‘his young daughter was having a’, this, it may be word perfect, ‘was having a’, erm”. 1578 “We have got ‘His daughter was playing ’?” Reply “Well, yeah, his, his daughter was having a lesson, you know, a kid’s lesson, I mean, she was only, she was probably the same age as E and E, they were in the same, they were all at the same clubs but they had, there were, there were a certain number of children so they had them in two groups, so they didn’t always do the same thing, you know, Beavers and the Lobsters or something. Erm, and, yeah, she was having a, a sort of, well kind of a kiddies lesson”. 00.56.50 1578 “Yes”. Reply “And the question about Madeleine then, this is exactly the same as Madeleine and E had done the day before. Erm, and that’s where that very famous picture of Madeleine with the b*lls was taken, so. But it wasn’t Madeline on this day, Madeleine and E were in the same group and I think they’d been done on, you know, the Tuesday or the , they had come up, so they all, there were two kind of mini kid groups, mini club kid groups and they did, you know, they were on like a rota and they did things at different times and on different days. So Madeleine was not there at that point at all. And I think that’s important, particularly, because of what the man said, if Madeleine was potentially being photographed by anyone, it was absolutely clear that Madeleine and E were not there that day. It says ‘I recall that a guy from Southampton came up, his daughter was playing , he wanted to take a picture’, erm, ‘but casual’, maybe ‘casually expressed to us how uncomfortable he felt in doing so’”. 1578 “’But casually expressed’?” Reply “Yeah, you know, he wasn’t, he just. And it might be worth saying that, you know, he said that the, you know, something like, you know, ‘These days you feel like a pervert’ or maybe just extending that, you know, ‘You feel like a dirty old man taking a picture of your own daughter’ maybe just to make it a bit more explicit, because that’s what he said, you know, he didn’t just come up and say ‘Oh I feel like a dirty old man’, you know, sort of, you know, ‘In this’, you know, ‘The way things are these days’, erm, you know, ‘you feel like a criminal’ or ‘a dirty old man taking a photo of your own kid’”. 1578 “’The way things are these days you feel like a’?” Reply “Yeah, you know, it, it was, it was a, it wasn’t just a ‘Oh I feel a bit dirty taking this’”. 1578 “Did he use the word ‘pervert’?” Reply “Huh, we had a whole conversation about this and whether those were his first words or whether this was what, you know, because there was Kate, there was myself, Jane, Rachael, him, there was a small group, you know, around, and I think he felt a little self-conscious because he was walking past another group of parents taking a photograph of several kids at the net of the ”. 00.58.58 1578 “Yeah”. Reply “I don’t know if he used the word ‘perv’, but the conversation went round on this and, you know, that, that society, you know, makes, can make normal parents feel uncomfortable doing what ten, twenty, thirty years ago would have been considered an entirely innocent thing, like taking a photograph. Erm, I think it would be ‘a dirty old man’, ‘feel a bit of a perv’, phew, I don’t know what his first words were. But then we actually had a conversation and I think, you know, we, probably as a group, kind of said, you know, said ‘It’s ridiculous isn’t it, you know, you take a picture of your own kid and you’re made to feel like you’re a pervert’ or something like that. Erm, and I don’t like the next paragraph the way it is, I think its, erm”. 1578 “Just a moment. And present at that conversation were?” Reply “Well certainly myself, Jane, Kate and Rachael, erm, I don’t know if there was any, erm, I think it was kind of generally a sort of women’s lesson that had gone on, there may have been a partner of one of the other, of the other guests, there were a couple of people who were, who Kate and Rachael and Jane had played with, I, I forget the names. I’ve got this vague recollection there was a lady who, probably in her mid-forties, blonde hair, who may have been there as well, I, I never really spoke to her really. But there may have been one person like in the group as well who had been playing . And this chap who, who, erm, whose name is in my original statement, I’m afraid I’ve forgotten what it was, erm, but he, as I say, he lives in Southampton, he was there with his wife and a young kid and, erm, and had lived in Exeter about fifteen years before, which was one of the conversations we had, erm, at that point. Erm, but, yeah, those are, those, certainly Rachael, Kate and myself, Jane and this man”. ’His apartment and Kate and Gerry’s’. At the end of the next, it was ‘Dan the coach was also present, as were a handful of other male guests’. ‘And Gerry’, for that matter, it doesn’t, doesn’t explicitly say that Gerry was playing some , which he was. So ‘Dan the coach was also present’, err, ‘as were Dave, Matt, Gerry and several other male guests’. It’s probably worth, I don’t think they, I’m not sure whether the kids were still awake or not. I think by the time Jane left to go down the kids were in bed but they hadn’t been in bed and asleep for as long as, as we’d normal had, just to make sure that they were definitely settled, but I suppose that’s too, too critical. ‘The children were awake’, I know the children were only just in bed”. 01.15.58 1578 “’The children were awake’, you want it to say ‘The children’?” Reply “’The children were only just in bed when Jane went down to the restaurant around half’, well, ‘The children had not long been in bed when Jane went down to the restaurant around’, err, we were late, so I think I’ve said twenty thirty to twenty forty there, we were late, so, I mean, you could lose the ‘twenty thirty’. Because we played a lot later and Jane was trying to get them bathed and bed and on her own it invariably takes a lot longer than when the two of us did it”. 1578 “Sorry, ‘Jane went to the restaurant around’?” Erm, around, around the six o’clock mark we were, we were having such a good time down there we were, we were half tempted to, for the men not to go back to what was planned up at the Tapas, erm, namely a sort of men’s social round, you know, which I think was due to start at six. And I think as it got around six we thought it’s not really fair, you know, three of us not going there, there might not be enough players, you know, there wasn’t a full resort, so me, Matt and Dave, erm, left everybody else down at the beach and headed back up to the, to the, erm, the apartments, well to the Tapas anyway. And I think, from the best of my recollection, I think me and Matt went straight to the, the courts, Dave went off to his apartment and I believe, erm, to Gerry and Kate’s apartment as well. Erm, we then went down to the , erm, it had already started because we were a little late, erm, and, erm, there was Gerry, Dan and a number of other male guests, maybe just sort of another three, two or three people, whose name I may have known at the time but no longer do, I certainly didn’t know them terribly well. And we started off playing doubles on both, both of the two courts, erm, sometimes changing, changing players”. 01.01.51 1578 “So there is Gerry, Dan, yourself and Matt?” Reply “And Dave and a couple of other guests”. 1578 “You said Dave went to the apartment?” Reply “Well he did, but only briefly and then, well he went, he went back there and then, and then joined us, so fairly rapidly there was the full kind of compliment of, erm, of, the male adults within the group were playing . And, erm, we played for, you know, a fair amount of time, I mean, in total, we were out there probably an hour and a half nearly, erm, you know, something between an hour and an hour and a half. Erm, and at some point during that period, erm, all the, the people came back up from the beach, so the kids were up at the, I can remember them being up at the, erm, the netting looking down at the sunken courts. Erm, I say, they may have come down onto the court briefly and, erm, well it’s the point we weren’t playing anything like competitive anyway. Erm, and at some stage Jane, I think, well the kids had had a fairly long day, it had been quite hot, erm, and all that week they were usually absolutely exhausted at the end of the day and ready for bed, erm, and Jane took our children back. I think Matt took, erm, G***e took, sorry, Rachael took G***e. And I think Gerry actually left the court because he had been playing for longer than us, I think he went back a little earlier than me, Matt and Dave. Erm, and Dan, the coach, had also left before we did, I think he’d been playing all day and it was quite a hot day so he’d had enough. Erm, and the reason I mention that is that normally if you went, if they were still there when you finished, you could put all the b*lls and the rackets away in the pavilion, erm, within the grounds, erm, but we had to take all of the rackets and b*lls back with us, so, you know, it was relatively late. And I’m not entirely sure what time I got back to, to the room, but, you know, well eventually, me, Matt and Dave all came back. And it was probably the latest that we’d got back and Jane and the kids had been in there for some time. Erm, I’d say it was probably coming up to, you know, not, not far shy of eight o’clock itself. Erm, and I would have probably had a quick shower, helped with the, erm, you know, with the stories and getting ready for bedtime. I know, I know our kids were pretty tired that, that evening, they’d been playing on the beach and had a really, a really busy Erm it varied day to day, we’d certainly see them erm a number of times each day, err generally, we probably didn’t see them at breakfast time, they were, I say they, they played more than sort of down at the water front I don’t think they did an awful lot down on the water front at all, so erm Jane probably saw slightly more of, of, of, of Kate and Gerry because she did a bit more than me. We, we’d see the children and them often at lunch time on a number of days, we had joint lunches in one or other of the, of the rooms, erm that didn’t necessarily happen every day, high tea we would always see all the children and all the adults together when they were served, they were served their dinner, erm think it was about five or about quarter past five, something like that, err so at least three or four times a day, I mean we, people did do their own thing you know during the week as well and then obviously every, every evening, err we were, you know we, we all kind of congregated together”. It was a warm day, good afternoon I recall that I went up to the social around 18:00hours with Matt I think David went to the apartment and then up to Gerry's. I played for around an hour to an hour and a half, Dan the coach was also present, as were some other male guests and Gerry we played a mixture of singles and doubles. The kids came up with Jane, Fiona and Rachael from the beach, but not the MC CANN'S children I presume that they were at the apartment. They stayed for a short while before going back to the apartment to be bathed and put to bed. I got back to the flat around 20:00hours as we were running late we had to take the rackets back with us. FIONA Yeah, that, that day, erm, I actually picked Scarlet up with , erm, and I’m trying to think what the time, the times were. I mean, that day we had been sailing, I think we were supposed to be doing wind surfing, but that day the, as I say, the waves were too rough (NOTE: The children went sailing with the kids club?) and we ended up, Dave and I, taking out a boat together. And, and that morning I think Matt came out as well and he was on a separate boat, I remember we were joking around with him quite a lot. And then we were drenched and really wet and really cold, so I think we actually came back to the apartment to get, you know, more clothes because were cold and hadn’t taken enough with us. Erm, and then, so that would have been, I don’t know, eleven, half eleven, that we were back at the apartment. And then sat, erm, on, by the pool for a bit with Dave and then we saw and and we just sat and had a chat with them. And then it was time to pick up the kids, so and I walked from the Tapas area over to the main reception, going between, you know, there was a sort of path that went between the other Ocean Club complex as well along the road, erm, and she picked up and I picked up Scarlet and then we walked back together and that was the only day we ever did, ever did that. Erm, and then when we got back they, you know, too to their apartment for lunch and, erm, I went up to ours for lunch. And that day, erm, I think was the only day that no-one else came for lunch, erm, tut, I think that was just me, Dave and my mum, and the others, Rachael and Matt, I think, had their lunch with Russ and Jane, erm, so those two families were together, and on their own and us on our own. We put our kids to bed slightly earlier that day, thinking, because it was a nicer day, that we’ll try and get down to the beach and, you know, have a bit of a afternoon at the beach with them. So that day was slightly ”. “So what time did you put them to bed?” Reply “Erm, I’d say it would be, you know,“So what time did you put them to bed?” Reply “Erm, I’d say it would be, you know, about one, half one again, erm”. 1485 “And what did you do at the time, once they had gone to bed?” Reply “When they were asleep, I think that day, I know Dave had been talking about trying to go wind surfing because the weather was better. I’m just trying to recall. I think mum had possibly, I think I just stayed at the apartment, Dave possibly, sort of halfway through the afternoon, while the kids were still asleep, went off to do some wind surfing and I think Matt and Russell had already gone down to do, to take a boat out a bit earlier, so the men were sort of out of the picture, and I don’t know what was doing. Erm, as I say, mum, I can’t remember whether mum was with me or not, she possibly had played a bit of , I think she might have played a bit of with Jane, I don’t know, I can’t comment on them, but I was around, I was around the apartment”. 00.17.02 1485 “Uh hu. So carry on then?” Reply “And then they would have woken up, the kids would have woken up about sort of three, half three, erm, and I went down to the beach at that point, certainly with mum, Dave, I can’t, I really can’t remember now whether he came down then to go wind surfing or whether he’d left a bit earlier to do the wind surfing, I have a feeling it was just the girls on their own that walked down to the beach, because Jane and, erm, Rachael also brought their children and we all sort of headed down to the beach”. 1485 “So in that little group was?” Reply “So in that group, yeah, me, mum, I think, as I say, I can’t say for Dave, I think he was already, had gone by then, yeah, Jane with, erm, E**a and E**e, well it would have just, it was just E**e actually because E**a was, would have been in kids club, and, erm, yeah, and Rachael with G***e”. , erm”. 1485 “And what did you do at the time, once they had gone to bed?” Reply “When they were asleep, I think that day, I know Dave had been talking about trying to go wind surfing because the weather was better. I’m just trying to recall. I think mum had possibly, I think I just stayed at the apartment, Dave possibly, sort of halfway through the afternoon, while the kids were still asleep, went off to do some wind surfing and I think Matt and Russell had already gone down to do, to take a boat out a bit earlier, so the men were sort of out of the picture, and I don’t know what was doing. Erm, as I say, mum, I can’t remember whether mum was with me or not, she possibly had played a bit of , I think she might have played a bit of with Jane, I don’t know, I can’t comment on them, but I was around, I was around the apartment”. 00.17.02 1485 “Uh hu. So carry on then?” Reply “And then they would have woken up, the kids would have woken up about sort of three, half three, erm, and I went down to the beach at that point, certainly with mum, Dave, I can’t, I really can’t remember now whether he came down then to go wind surfing or whether he’d left a bit earlier to do the wind surfing, I have a feeling it was just the girls on their own that walked down to the beach, because Jane and, erm, Rachael also brought their children and we all sort of headed down to the beach”. 1485 “So in that little group was?” Reply “So in that group, yeah, me, mum, I think, as I say, I can’t say for Dave, I think he was already, had gone by then, yeah, Jane with, erm, E**a and E**e, well it would have just, it was just E**e actually because E**a was, would have been in kids club, and, erm, yeah, and Rachael with G***e”. So, yeah, we all headed, we headed off and then, once we were on the beach, we were, we were a little while just sort of the women and the kids really playing on the beach, you know, sandcastles and stuff. Erm, and then, at some point, Matt and Russell came back in and there was a bit of a laugh because Russ was saying that he saved Matt’s life or something, I don’t know, something had happened on the boat and, erm, you know, there was some jokes about Matt trying to capsize and drowned and all sorts. And then, a bit later, after that, Dave had came in from the wind surfing. Time wise I”. 00.19.20 1485 “Try and remember”. Reply “I find hard, but, I mean, assuming we got to the beach about four o’clock, I’d say, you know, I’d say Matt must have got in, I’m sure it was Matt and Russ, about half four, erm, and then, about twenty minutes after that, maybe Dave. Erm, so by five o’clock we were all kind of ready to have a drink and feed the kids. Erm, so that, that group as a whole went up to the restaurant, erm, on the beach and ordered our, well the food for the kids, we didn’t eat, and we all had a beer. Erm, so, yeah, I’d say about five”. “Erm, and then I remember it getting to time, because it was men’s that night and the men had all rearranged the time to suit us and it was getting towards six o’clock and, you know, they were going to be late, so I remember saying ‘Look, you better go because it’s not fair, you’ve moved the time then you’ll be late’. Erm, so I think that, that was sort of approaching five to six. And we were toying with the idea of getting the kids ice creams for pudding and then thought oh we probably don’t have time, but then we decided well, you know, why don’t you go off and go to your and we’ll just give them their ice cream and follow on. And so I think they left probably about, you know, that being Matt and Dave and Russell, around five to six, six o’clock time. And the, you know, the wives stayed behind with the kids, they had ice cream and then we followed on about ten past six and we just walked back up to, to watch them play a bit of and give the kids, you know, a little playtime. Erm, and I don’t think we stayed there that long that night because the kids were pretty, pretty tired. Erm, I’m trying to think, I’d say probably by seven o’clock we were, me and my mum headed back with the kids to start bath time. Erm, and Dave, we left him playing for a bit longer. Erm, I think we’d bathed the kids by the time he got back, probably ten minutes later. Erm, and then I went for a run that night, after the kids were bathed”. 00.23.13 1485 “So it is after seven?” Reply “After seven, it must have been about half past seven”. 1485 “Where did you run?” Reply “Erm, I had a fairly standard sort of route, I’d sort of go down past the Tapas Restaurant, cut across to the far sort of right side of the beach as you are looking at it and then I would run along the beach full length, come back to the Paradiso Restaurant bit and cut up, erm, I mean, it’s hard to describe, cut up through the shops and then back again. But, you know, it was the same sort of route I did”. “I’m quite slow. It was probably about a twenty or a twenty-five minute run”. 1485 “Yeah”. Reply “I would have been back by eight o’clock”. 1485 “By eight. And what was the weather like, was it dark or was it light?” Reply “That day was a really nice day, which is why I wanted to do the run. And I remember the was a bit of a transition day, as I say, you know, with the weather, it just seemed to warm up, it was sunnier, erm, and it was a very pleasant evening, you know, it was a nice sunny evening, warm”. 1485 “Right. Just before I move you on from your run, if you can just take yourself back a little bit, when you was at the beach, when you was all eating before?” Reply “Yeah”. 1485 “Did you see at all running?” Reply “No. No, I, I know somebody did in the group, because they commented, but I didn’t personally see her run”. 1485 “You didn’t see her at all?” Reply “No, no, but somebody, I don’t know which one of the group, did say they’d seen run past”. 1485 “And you said that David had already gone up for his lesson, what time did he leave the beach to go up for his lesson?” Reply “Well the way I recall it, it was, sorry, the, the men’s , from the restaurant?” 00.25.52 1485 “Yeah, the men’s ”. Reply “Erm, I think they all went together about five to six, six o’clock”. 1485 “Right”. Reply “I knew they were going to be a bit late, as I say, that’s why I’m remembering it was sort of five to six, six o’clock, because I remember sort of think, feeling it’s being a bit rude to not be on time when you’ve bought it back”. 1485 “Yeah, yeah”. Reply “Erm, yeah”. 1485 “And then you got up there, once you had all finished eating, and you went to watch the men play ?” Reply “Yeah”. 1485 “Just tell me a little bit about that, who was playing who and was there any kids around?” Reply “Erm, yeah, I mean, , phew, I don’t know who was playing who, but there was certainly , Matt, erm, you know, Russ and Dave, erm, and typically being men, it was all quite competitive and, erm, and far to the women’s . Erm, and the kids, I think, as I said earlier, weren’t there and, you know, they, as said, were just absolutely knackered and was getting them bathed and ready for bed. Erm, and, yeah, the others, sort of me, Rachael and Jane, with the kids, our kids, were just sort of watching them playing for a bit, we didn’t stay that long that night”. 1485 “Yeah. When did tell you that the kids were knackered and was bathing them?” Reply “I think that was something I learnt later or whether he told me at the time, I know they weren’t there and it didn’t really, it wasn’t really that surprising, as I say, we were a bit later getting there that night, whereas, on previous nights, when we’d had a playtime, it was immediately after the kids high tea”. 00.27.21 1485 “Yeah”. Reply “So, you know, it wasn’t a surprise that they weren’t there. Erm, and I know Dave had said to me later, because he, erm, after he’d said he’d checked on and the kids before going to ”. 1485 “Who was that, sorry, Dave?” Reply “Dave, yeah. So he’d mentioned that later, so I don’t know at what point I knew that, but”. 1485 “Was that off his own back or was he told?” Reply “No, he said, what did he check off his own back?” 1485 “Yeah”. Reply “I don’t know actually, I don’t know”. 1485 “How did that come into your conversation?” Reply “Because he was saying how angelic they all looked and he said to when we all sat down at the Tapas table as well and he was sort of joking how they looked like perfect children, because they were all sat there, all clean in their pyjamas, having a story”. 1485 “Yeah. But when did he, specifically, when did he tell you?” Reply “That he’d done that?” 1485 “Done that, yeah”. Reply “I think it was when we were getting the kids ready for bed and we were back in our apartment”. 1485 “Right. So what time did he come back then from his ?” Reply “I’d say, if we came back about seven, he was about ten minutes after that, so about ten past seven, quarter past seven, something like that”. 1485 “And then you went for your run. So he told you that before you went for your run?” Reply “Yeah, yeah”. 00.28.29 1485 “Is that right?” Reply “Yeah”. 1485 “And so we move on then to your run, it just takes you twenty minutes?” Reply “Yeah”. 1485 “You came back just before eight?” Reply “Yeah”. So what was the arrangements for the evening then?” Reply “The same as they had been, meet up at half eight, erm, at the, at the Tapas Bar. Erm, I think I was a bit late, because by the time I got back and helped put the kids to bed and had got in the shower, it was generally me that held things up for us that night, erm, in getting out the door”. 1485 “Uh hu”. Reply “Erm, and, yeah, there was nothing that , other than we were, as I say, that that night we were a bit later leaving, erm, it was about ten to nine, five to nine, that sort of time when we, erm, left to go to the Tapas”. I believe we left the beach at around sort of just after six, ten past six, something like that, so we would have been back, it would have taken us a good ten minutes to walk back”. What time would the have started then?” Reply “I think usually it was half six. This is where, you know, I can’t remember whether we changed it the night before as well. But I know, because we were the main group using the evening, you know, they said oh well it’s fine to move it back to a time because, you know, we were kind of the only ones playing. So I can’t remember on Wednesday whether it got moved back to six o’clock. I’m pretty certain on the it was moved to a bit earlier”. 1485 “Right”. Reply “Six until seven”. 1485 “And the next question is, where were you exactly between six pm to seven pm? I know you have”. Reply “Six to seven. So, from six to ten past six, I would have been at the, erm, the Paradiso Restaurant, or whatever it’s called, on the beach”. 1485 “Yeah”. Reply “Erm, you know, and then we walked back up, so I’d say that would take ten or fifteen minutes. Then we went straight to the courts area, the play area with the children, erm, and we would have stayed there, you know, for fifteen, twenty minutes, before going up to the apartment. Erm, and we went straight from the play area to the apartments”. 1485 “Yeah. And so, what you are saying is, you were at the Paradiso until ten past six?” Reply “Yeah”. 1485 “Then it took you fifteen minutes to walk up?” Reply “Yeah”. 1485 “So you would be up to the courts?” Reply “We were certainly there by half past, I would say”. 00.06.31 1485 “By half past?” Reply “Half six, yeah”. 1485 “Watched the for about fifteen minutes, that takes to you to quarter to?” Reply “Yeah, I’d say, yeah, between fifteen, twenty, twenty-five minutes, that sort of time, but I certainly would have left before seven to go back and start bathing the kids”. 1485 “Right. And when you were at the courts, exactly who was there?” Reply “Erm, the people that walked back with, with me, so Rachael and G***e and Jane and the kids and my mum. Erm, and then the men were playing , so , erm, and Russell and , sorry, , Russell, I’ve forgotten all their names (laughs), Dave and Matt, so they, yeah, they were all participating. I couldn’t tell you when, if, if any of the other women left, what time they left to sort their kids out, you know, maybe a bit later, it’s not we all went together or anything, but I couldn’t tell you who left when”. 1485 “Yeah. And was it just your group that was playing at that time?” Reply “In the men’s ?” 1485 “Yeah, in the men’s ”. Reply “Erm”. 1485 “Was there anybody else there for example?” Reply “Erm, tut, no, I can’t recall. Erm, tut, there was this other Doctor, guy, he played a lot of , I think he might have been there, he was a young chap, erm”. 1485 “Do you know his name?” Reply “No, I mean, and were sort of more, as I say, they were all the side, they were a bit more friendly with the other people that had been playing that sort of . Erm, so there was this other guy and a guy called Steve, I think, possibly. I don’t think it was just the four of them. Erm, again, I couldn’t, I couldn’t swear on that”. 00.08.33 1485 “As I understand it, there was a tournament taking place the following day, wasn’t there, was there nobody practising or?” Reply “Well there was only two courts and during that time, because this was a set, erm, MARK WARNER sort of hour”. 1485 “Yeah”.<!-- google_ad_section_end --> Reply “You couldn’t book the courts for practice, erm, so both courts were, for that hour, the men’s . Erm, so I don’t recall anyone else playing in the, you know, or practising. Erm, I think, you know, I, I, as I recall, I mean, I couldn’t say for sure whether there were other men there, I seem to remember there being a lot of focus on them sort of playing what they wanted to play, the, you know, out of, you know, Russell, Matt and, erm, and , you know, I’m sure they were practising doing shots and things like that, which is what they wanted to do, so I think if there had been other people there, they would have been having to join in with that. Erm, because I think, I mean, Dave on his camera might even have photos, I think I even took photos, erm, of them practising doing a serve”. 1485 “Right”. Reply “You know, measuring the speed of the ball and all this sort of stuff, you know, it was all a bit more, as I say, competitive than, than the girls. Erm, I can’t swear on it that there was anybody else present basically, no. Maybe I’m not tuned into it”. 1485 “Yeah. What I was going to say was, that I understand that the kids had a hour round about eleven o’clock in the morning during that day and that had been part of that practice. Were you aware of that?” Reply “No, no, because our children weren’t of that age really, they sort of did things”. 1485 “Right”. Reply “I mean, obviously I was aware after, I’ve seen, I’ve seen pictures”. 1485 “Yeah”. Reply “Erm”. 00.10.29 1485 “Because Jane TANNER had actually taken a picture of with the racquet?” Reply “Yeah”. 1485 “Were you there?” Reply “No, I wasn’t, I wasn’t there”. 1485 “No. So, and again, you have answered this question, but between six and seven as well, could you tell me where David was?” Reply “Erm, I can up to a point, yeah. He was, as I say, he left, as I see it, around six, erm, and then I wouldn’t have seen him again until I got to the courts to see him play , so that would have been about half six and then he was playing for that whole half an hour and, as I say, we left him playing , when me and my mum went up to bath the kids and he, he didn’t sort of return until after seven, ten past seven, quarter past seven, something like that, so, yeah, that’s where he was. And then the rest is what he’s told me, erm, again, I couldn’t tell you times, but I know before he went, went to , he popped in on and the kids, erm, and saw them all in their pyjamas, ready for bed, having a story, before going to join for the , so I can only assume that that was between, erm, you know, six and half past”. 1485 “So he didn’t tell you a period of time where he did that then?” Reply “Sorry?” 1485 “He didn’t tell you the period of time which he checked on?” Reply “Well he said it was before ”. 1485 “Before ?” Reply “Yeah, before going to the ”. 1485 “And the next question is, okay, and you have just answered it. If he is not with you during this period then where did he go and with what intention? Well it is obviously it is to play , isn’t it?” Reply “Umm”. 00.12.19 1485 “Although you can’t say one hundred percent, can you, if he was on the court between six and seven, can you?” Reply “No”. 1485 “You can say he was there between quarter to seven and seven?” Reply “I feel I’m answering Dave’s question for him”. 1485 “Yeah”. Reply “Because all I know is that he, he said to me later on that evening that he had been in on and the kids. Erm, now I’m taking that as before , whether it was that stayed on playing and Dave came back earlier and popped in before coming up to our apartment, I, I can’t, I can’t be a hundred percent on that”. 1485 “Yeah”. Reply “Erm, you know, contrary to what you’re thinking, I mean, huh, you know, we don’t”. 1485 “I don’t think”. Reply “Well, you know. Dave’s, erm, you know, I believe that’s for Dave to say what he did really”. 1485 “Sure, yeah”. Reply “But I know, I know he said”. 1485 “It is your interview”. Reply “Yeah, I know he said he’d been in there”. 1485 “Yeah”. Reply “Erm, and that was before coming back to our apartment, so between, between six and seven o’clock”. 00.13.11 1485 “Yeah. If you don’t know you don’t know”. Reply “Yeah”. 1485 “That is the answer really, isn’t it?” Reply “Yeah”. When did you see Kate and Gerald on Thursday, so when was the first time that you saw Kate and Gerry on the Thursday?” Reply “It would have been sort of late morning when we’d got back from our sailing and we got changed, got some warm things on and we were just sat on the sun loungers by the pool, erm, just having a drink and Kate and Gerry appeared, we offered them a drink, I think they turned down, they either, they’d just had a tennis lesson or had a knock, erm. In fact I think, was it Gerry had had a lesson then and was going into length degree to Kate about his style of tennis and I was joking that Kate was actually listening to this and finding it incredibly boring cos it’s the sort of thing, you know, they, as a couple, they did have amazing sort of patience with each other than (inaudible), I wouldn’t have that with David talking to me (inaudible), so there was that joke, so yeah I think it was Gerry just had a tennis lesson and Kate might have been having a knock up, but they were in their tennis gear”. 00.43.11 1485 “You say they turned up at your apartment?” Reply “No, no this was down by the, this was down on the sun loungers outside the, where the pool”. 1485 “Oh right, you were downstairs”. Reply “And it was just about time to go and pick up the kids, so we sort of sat about ten minutes and then, so Kate and I wandered off down to the, erm, Reception to get the kids, erm, Scarlet, Madeleine and Gerry and Dave went and got, went to the toddler club to get the twins and L***”. (Message edited by TinLizzy On 05/27/2010 8:55 PM) |
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Re：TENNIS Table THURSDAY (with T9 Loctions) Date Posted：05/30/2010 3:44 AMCopy HTML Date Posted:04/06/2010 8:35 AM)
DAVID PAYNE "Alright, what I now want you to concentrate on David is the important day really, the third of May. I want you to try and put yourself back in to that, it may help you if you think of the time when the alarm was raised, that may well bring you back to the beginning of the day and try and remember as much as you can, the time you got up, I know that you said on the first interviews that you couldn’t remember an awful lot but try as best you can to remember from say midday onwards.” 00:01:48 Reply "Mm yeah, err on that particular day err me and Fiona had you know gone down to the beach, we err took the dinghies out err as usual we went, you know we had the kids, err we had lunch err in the apartment. Err that afternoon I wanted to go down err to the Ocean, err to the beach and err you know windsurf err Matt and Russell had gone down there, they were, had taken the catamaran out. So I went down there err while Fiona and Dianne were looking after the girls in our apartment. Err I was down err windsurfing, I must have been windsurfing for a couple of hours, err saw Matt and Russ out on err the catamaran and then after we finished there we you know we met on the beach, played with the girls on the beach and then we went to the err the restaurant which is on the err overlooking the beach and you know we had err the evening meal there. Err after we had the meal we got some ice cream and then err we decided that we were gonna go up and play so I left err with err Russell, we left the, err the girls at the restaurant and we went up to the, err back up to the Ocean Club. Err I, as I say I’m not sure you know what happened to Matt and Russell at that particular moment but I remember then you know I went over to see err at the err you know courts, just to see you know what was happening, and err decided that we’d, you know I’d come, come back to play and err had asked me just to pop in and check everything was alright err with or you know again I can’t remember the exact reason whether he was just making sure it was alright that he could stay there and you know more time but you know he’d asked me to pop in. So I walked back err from the courts, err back to err you know and ’s apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we’ve looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we’ve got that I was you know going to ’s about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to , you know it’s a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they’ve had such a great time, they’re really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can’t remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously wasn’t there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who’d had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think played a little, for a little while but he decided that he’d, he’d played enough for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the coach from Mark Warner. Err so we played some and you know we were having a good knock and then it was getting a bit late so err we, you know we left the courts, went back to our respective partners to get ready to go out, you know it was, it was, you know certainly after half past seven that we’d, you know we’d left the courts, perhaps even a bit later than that. Err when I got back err I think because Fiona had done a lot of babysitting and left me playing she said well I’m gonna go for a very quick run so she went for a run on the beach, you know, err got the kids ready, bathed, got them ready for err to go to bed but again you know as we’d got back late err from the courts you know the whole time err for that evening was not, you know later. And then we just got ready to go and by the time Fi had got back from the run we’d all had showers, we were all ready to go and the girls were asleep and we were happy to leave the apartment, it was you know it was sort of gone quarter to nine. You’ve done, you’ve remembered everything you possibly can that’s all.” Reply "Yeah. I’m sure if I chatted more to you I’d probably remember more.” 1485 "Well all I was gonna do is I was gonna go back to, I was gonna try and take you in stages through you know your recall just to see whether it could prompt anything else really, and what I want to try and do is go back to you know the Tapas bar really.” Reply "Yes.” 1485 "Sorry, further back than that I want to go back to the beach.” Reply "Yes.” 1485 "Because you said that you were on the beach, you was windsurfing.” Reply "Yes.” 1485 "And you spotted Matt and Russell.” Reply "Yes.” 1485 "On the catamaran.” Reply "Yes.” 1485 "Something happened on the catamaran where Matt fell in.” Reply "Yes.” 1485 "Do you know about that?” 00:24:15 Reply "Yeah I mean that was a topic of conversation that we had at the table, you know, because Matt is the experienced sailor of the two of them and err Russell err you know hadn’t done a great deal of sailing and catamarans are not particularly easy I understand err to sail and err Matt had gone overboard and Russell then had to get the catamaran back to pick him up so that was err you know a story of amusement at the table.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Err I didn’t actually see that happen you know.” 1485 "Right.” Reply "But you know I certainly saw them out there, err on the water.” 1485 "Yeah, what sort of time, excuse me it’s getting a warm in here, what sort of time was that that you saw them?” Reply "You know I’d say, I’d say you know roughly around three o’ clock but very roughly.” 1485 "Yeah very roughly.” Reply "Err you know I, generally our girls slept in the afternoon say between two and four and err so that’d be the time that I’d have gone out there and I was out there for a couple of hours you know err the, I’ve done a great deal of windsurfing and you know the conditions were very good.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Err so as I say we were out there for a couple of, I was out there for a couple of hours.” 1485 "So the girls went to bed at, woke up about four, so you think it would have been after four that you’d have gone down to the beach then?” 00:25:34 Reply "Err well no because I mean like usually like while they were asleep it’s a good time to do you know activities and you know someone could stay behind, look after the children so err Fiona, and I think Dianne, had both stayed behind and you know I said well I’ll go get a, get a…” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "A windsurf.” 1485 "Right. So did you walk down to the beach on your own then?” Reply "Yes, as far as I remember I think Matt and Russ had gone, gone already, gone down before me.” 1485 "And did you see anybody on your way down?” Reply "Err…” 1485 "Your group or other?” Reply "I can’t remember.” 1485 "And when you got down to the beach was the beach busy?” Reply "Err not, not horrendously, no. I mean there was some other windsurfers there err you know I remember when I was out windsurfing you know seeing other people windsurfing as well.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "But you know, again, it wasn’t particularly busy.” 1485 "How long do you think you stayed out there for?” Reply "I think I was probably out there the best part of a couple of hours.” 1485 "So we’re saying around about six o’ clock ish, would that be about right?” Reply "Err well I mean we were probably, as I say, windsurfing I was windsurfing around two to four o’ clock, then we had the girls come down so there was some playing on the beach.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Then we went for something to eat and then we left the err restaurant and err you know, I hadn’t got a watch on me, I hadn’t you know I hadn’t got a mobile, all we had was the camera which you know as I say the time on that suggests that we left the restaurant err you know after six o’ clock, so you know just working backwards…” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "The time that I thought we’d finished you know…” 1485 "Yeah.” 00:27:23 Reply "Water sports would be around four o’ clock, then a bit of time on the beach and then you know your meal, which would take an hour, which seems to fit in with the, you know the timescale of events.” 1485 "So who did you leave on the beach when you, when you walked up?” Reply "When, when we left we didn’t leave from the beach we left from the err restaurant.” 1485 "The restaurant, but who did you leave at the restaurant?” Reply "Err the, basically the err the children and the ladies that stayed behind, err just to finish off there and err and then we, you know Fiona said to me we’d better get going if you’re gonna miss all the, you know any activities err so we said right well we’ll go, we’ll get up there and you know play .” 1485 "Yeah, when you say the ladies, that was Fiona and…” Reply "Yeah, Jane and Rachael, yeah.” 1485 "Right, and the respective children?” Reply "Yes, yes.” 1485 "Okay, and who did you walk back to the Ocean Club with?” Reply "Err there was Russell and Matt. As I say I can’t, can’t remember what hap, whether they went, we peeled off and they carried up to the apartment and I said oh I’ll just go down to the , you know, I can’t remember exactly what happened at that stage, but I know I went and spoke to .” 1485 "So on your way back what route would you take on the way back? There’s a map for this one.” Reply "Yeah, we…” 00:28:40 1485 "Unfortunately the map doesn’t show the beach, it’ll show the proximity going back to the apartment block. Which way is the beach? If you imagine, or if you look at, that’s, there’s the Tapas.” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "So that would have been and ’s apartment.” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "So you’d walk round there from your Tapas, so which way would the beach be?” Reply "Okay, so, sorry that’s the, is this the Tapas here?” 1485 "That’s the Tapas yeah.” Reply "Yeah, so our apartments would be about here so err you know we went, crikey, the Ocean Club is there I presume, does that say Ocean Club? Yeah.” 1485 "The Ocean Club garden.” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "I think that’s the Ocean Club in general.” Reply "Yeah the main reception part sorry, so we, we would walk past here, this is the Supermarket I presume, here.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "You’d walk past that way. There’s err you know we’d go along past the err Ocean reception down and then there was a road which kind of like quite a steep road which had err there was a small Supermarket there.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "There was err a pub there which I think was quite popular with err you know locals and holiday makers and that, that road led you right down and at the end of the road is the err restaurant. Now, you know, I wouldn’t say every time we walked back that way, there, there was another route that you, we, we cut through as well but I, I’m pretty sure that night we walked up that way and round because I know we walked past the Ocean Club.” 1485 "Yeah.” 00:30:14 Reply "But err…” 1485 "Okay, but how long would that generally take you?” Reply "How long? Err I’d say, yeah ten fifteen minutes walk.” 1485 "So when you got back to the apartments or the complex.” Reply "Yes.” 1485 "There’s the courts there.” Reply "Yes.” 1485 "So presumably what you’re saying is you walked up with Matt and Russell.” Reply "Yeah, yes.” 1485 "That way.” Reply "As far as I can remember…” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "That, you know, I just seemed to have got the images of walking past the reception.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Well the only way we could have walked past the reception is if we’d have gone that route.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "So that’s what I’m basing my err recollection on.” 1485 "Did you go straight then to the courts?” Reply "Yes, I think I did, I think I’d gone straight there to chat with just to check that, you know, what was going on and everything and then went err went back to see after.” 1485 "And what was doing?” Reply "Err had been, you know, playing you know already, he was having a good err game and I think there was you know, and there were a couple of the other players who had specifically gone out there on a Mark Warner holiday to play and you know was, you know, getting a lot out of the week from the and made friends with those people and he was having a good game with them. Err so you know he would basically be playing .” 1485 "Yeah, and at what point did you have the conversation with him? Did he stop the game or did you speak whilst he was playing?” 00:31:48 Reply "I can’t remember, I can’t remember. I, you know, in my mind, you know, he stopped playing and you know but I can’t remember if I’m perfectly honest.” 1485 "And how long did you stay and watch the game for?” Reply "Err all I remember is I was having a, you know, a brief conversation with , err you know and then you know I went back, I didn’t actually stay there for too long because of the time, you know, was ticking by err but again these are, you know…” 1485 "Afterwards.” Reply "Yeah, recollections rather than you know whether there was anything in between, there could well have been.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "So where were you going then? Presumably you weren’t going to play were you? When you left the beach, what was…” Reply "Yeah, oh yes that was always the intention and that’s what Fiona was saying, look if you’re actually gonna do anything tonight you’d better get yourselves up there and it’s getting quite late so that was, you know, that’s the reason we’d all gone ahead because we waited till the children had finished eating and err got in the prams and got up there, you know it takes another five ten minutes on top walking back with them, err then you know we’d have lost the opportunity. Err again, presuming that you know the was usually around six thirty, that if you know, if we’re leaving the restaurant you know, quarter past six or whatever, around that time, that you know if we’d leave it much longer with it taking ten minutes or whatever to walk up just to start the at half six, you know we were already cutting it fine and I think as it transpired we were playing till you know even beyond there, it was quarter to seven, or around then and err you know if we’d have left it much later then we just thought well it’s gonna finish, so.” 00:33:29 1485 "Right, were you going for a lesson or were you actually going to play?” Reply "We were gonna play, there was obviously me, Matt and Russ, and was making up the four, fourth err person.” 1485 "But he was already playing?” Reply "Yeah he’d already been playing and that’s partly the reason that he kind of like threw in the towel early and said ah you know I’ve had, enough’s enough, I’ve had a good day and err but then we managed to get Dan, the pro, just to play a bit with us err you know so that made up the four ball err just for a little while.” 1485 "So your four…” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "Was yourself, Matt, Russell and…” Reply "Well it started off with and we had a bit with him and then Dan played a bit.” 1485 "And Dan, Dan replaced then did he?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "How far through the game was that?” Reply "I can’t remember.” 1485 "Sets wise?” Reply "Err you know whether we played one, you know again this is just, yeah usually we’d play a set and then change over so most likely it would be played a set and then left, that was most likely how it happened.” 1485 "Okay, and it was at what point that said to you go and, would you mind checking at ?” Reply "Well I mean coming back from the beach I’d got no equipment to play you know, etcetera, so I had to go back to my room to you know change into stuff appropriate for playing in, and err so he knew that I’d walk up that by and past so he said oh why don’t you err, you know can you just pop in on the way, the way up, so it was on the way back from me picking the stuff up.” 1485 "Right, so you’ve walked past, you’ve walked past ’s apartment to get to yours.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "Got changed?” Reply "No, you know it was, again whether it was, in my mind it was on the way up that I’d popped in to but it could have been on the way back, again, I’m sorry.” 1485 "No, it’s okay.” Reply "For my vagueness.” 00:35:21 1485 "But either way you’d have had to walk past because you go the roadside don’t you?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "So you’d have had to walk past ’s…” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "Front door twice wouldn’t you?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "Is that right?” Reply "So, the reason why I think it was more likely that I did it on the way there was because I’ve called in through the err patio, it kind of made more sense that I’d have walked in through the gate and then up through the you know where the sliding doors are to say I’m here, rather than going up to my apartment, coming back down, coming past the apartment and then coming in the sliding doors.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Because what I would have done is I’d have got changed and gone downstairs and then knocked on the front door because that, you know that would have made more sense rather than going all the way round and…” 1485 "Yeah, course.” Reply "So that’s in my mind why it makes more sense that it was, that that was on the way up.” 1485 "Right, so how long did you spend in your apartment before, I know you, I appreciate that you can’t recall whether it’s going or coming.” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "The likelihood is that it’s on the way.” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "How long did you spend in your apartment?” 00:36:24 Reply "I mean again, we’ve you know, we’ve chatted about the timings and everything and you know looked at the photographs and you know, you know we were leaving about quarter past six from the err restaurant, we’d gotta walk up there, ten, fifteen minutes, conversation with , conversation with , you know that’s another five, ten minutes on to your ten, fifteen minutes walk so you’re talking twenty five minutes, so that’s taken you to twenty five to, twenty to seven, well you know we were certainly playing for a, you know the best part of an hour err so you know it couldn’t have been long that I was in the apartment, you know a matter of minutes.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "You know just to pick the kit up and, and then go back down really.” 1485 "Did you have your own racquet?” Reply "I didn’t, no, I was using the, err Mark Warner’s racquets.” 1485 "Mark Warner’s, okay. I just want to revisit the going and seeing before we move on.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "Alright, and the reason why I’ve kept it separate is because I want you to just think now.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "And imagine, remember what you saw.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "Did you open the door, slid door? Or was it already open? Or…” Reply "Err I think it was already open, I think it was already open. Err you know, as I say, I walked up there, was you know I say looking very relaxed and err I say a comment to her I said well crikey it’s early, early for them to be getting ready you know for bed, as I say she said ah no, I’ve had such a good, you know such a good day and afternoon err so you know, and ’s just obviously finishing off playing and err so you know hopefully try and get them down and as I say we were just, you know I, I know, it does sound bizarre but I just looked at the three of them and I couldn’t, you know they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate it was, you know I was, and you know they just looked such healthy children, err you know, there’s, there’s you know nothing that normally…” 1485 "Yeah.” 00:38:36 Reply "Triggers in my mind like that but it was just how well that they looked and err…” 1485 "Try to remember where in, where they were in the apartment.” Reply "Err, I mean the, the time that I was there err you know all, all of them err all the children and were in the, err as soon as you go through the patio doors err you know they were all in the immediate area you know in front of you, err that was the area that they generally, you know when I saw them, so I didn’t, no I didn’t go any further into the apartment, you know it was just a conversation that I like, you know walked into the, you know through the French doors, I went into the lounge err you know the open plan area and err you know just had a brief conversation, you know things started off by as I say, saying about the, how well they looked and you know, it’s early to get them ready for bed and then I said oh ’s, you know just finished over there, we’re going over to play a bit of , err I probably said is there any problems with that and she said ah no, no fine, you know carry on, and err you know perhaps a bit more of a conversation err but you know it, it wasn’t many minutes that I was, was there.” 1485 "Yeah.” 00:39:55 Reply "But err certainly enough time just to see, you know, certainly the apartment, there was nothing that was untoward, that was you know err the children all looked extremely happy, there was no, you know signs of any problems with err you know , you know or indeed the relationship that had got with any of the three children. None of the children had been told off, none of the children looked like they were you know in trouble for anything, you know they were err still all talking and playing around. Err so you know it was just a very err transient you know that I’d gone in there, but as I say it just struck me how well they all looked.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "And content I suppose is the other word to use.” 1485 "Did you actually go into the apartment?” Reply "I did.” 1485 "Or did you do the conversation from the door?” Reply "No, definitely was inside the apartment, you know whether it be two or three steps into the apartment or you know however many, but I was definitely in the apartment.” 00:41:00 1485 "Okay, so now what I’m gonna try and ask you to recollect, what everybody was wearing.” Reply "I’m afraid that is, you know I’m, I cannot recall at all. I know that’s, you’d think that’d be an obvious thing to remember, I cannot remember. As I say the, from the children point of view predominantly I can remember the, you know, white, but I couldn’t say exactly what they were wearing. Err…” 1485 "But could you remember what was wearing for example?” Reply "I can’t, no.” 1485 "And did you actually set eyes on each individual child?” Reply "All three children I saw, yeah.” 1485 "And were they standing up? Sitting down?” Reply "Err they were generally standing up, yeah.” 1485 "Did they actually acknowledge you?” Reply "Err oh yeah, you know I’m very sure that if you’d have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they’d all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we’d all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I’d be playing with you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she’d definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.” 1485 "Yeah. Was that the last time you saw ?” 00:42:39 Reply "It was.” 1485 "How many minutes, you said as a matter of minutes and then you went back and then you played .” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "I’m gonna pin you down and ask you how long you think you were in there for. I know you say minutes.” Reply "In their apartment, it, it, I’d say three minutes, five maximum.” 1485 "Three to five?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "So then you step back out, did you leave the doors open or did you close them?” Reply "Err I couldn’t remember. You know, again, I’ve got the, in my mind that the doors were open when I went in and I probably would have just walked out back that way, you know, it still, I mean it’s still relatively nice outside, it was light and everything so err you know I, I, whether they kept the door open it’s just nice when it’s the end of the evening you know, sorry, you know the end of the afternoon, but if I’m perfectly honest the answer to that question is I can’t remember.” 1485 "Okay. So then you went back and then you played, you played a game for about an hour?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "You think from seven, from about seven till about eight?” Reply "Yeah, I mean it must, I mean it was before, I mean we got back before eight o’ clock err you know so perhaps just before seven, err sorry, err yeah just before seven so it was just before eight o’ clock. As I say when I got back I think I was cutting it fine and Fiona was still keen to go for a run and we started to get everyone ready for bed.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "And err so it was, as I say, about an hour but certainly we’d finished before eight o’ clock.” 00:44:18 1485 "Okay, and when you finished, I’m just trying to put this in order here, when you actually, when you finished and you went back to the apartment, did you say anything to about, about the fact that his family were fine? Or…” Reply "Yeah, err yeah, I haven’t mentioned this before, but yes, yeah I’d certainly, when we met up I said oh yeah, you know everything’s fine there, you know probably along the lines of you know you’ve got a bit more of a free pass you know you can carry on for a bit longer, ’s fine without everyone you know all the children are, are happy, there’s no difficulties with bath time or anything so you know, without actually saying all that just conveying to him that you know I don’t think you need to err rush back, you’ve got a free pass for a bit longer.” 1485 "Alright.” Reply "Err yeah.” 1485 "So was that as soon as you got back to the, to the courts?” Reply "Yeah that would have been when we got back.” 1485 "When you got back to the courts as opposed to at the end of the session.” Reply "Yeah, yeah, yeah.” 1485 "Okay, and was he fine with that?” Reply "Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, again, you know it’s difficult with cameras and everything, you don’t want to sound (inaudible) or anything, but you know he’s a very sorted person, a very caring person and that’s the kind of thing, you know he’s very organised.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "And you know he will make sure everything’s fine and sorted before you know the, the, he’d carry on and do something for his own benefit if you like. So you know he was certainly one to, he would have wanted to know before you know continuing.” <!-- google_ad_section_end --> Now you’ve answered the first one, it says what time did you return to the beach club on May the third as you were coming from the beach?” Reply "Right.” 1485 "So that’s where you said that you come from the restaurant.” Reply "Yeah, yeah we’d come from the restaurant on the beach and as I say we left there about eighteen fifteen, err at that time.” 1485 "And where did you go?” Reply "We went, I, I went up err went to see at the courts.” 1485 "So you were at the courts, who did you talk to?” Reply "Err just pretty much, you know, whether I made comment to anyone else I don’t remember that, just, I just remember I talked to .” 1485 "Okay, did you go to the MCCANN family apartment between six and seven? Well, yes you did.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "And if yes, why? You’ve already said that. Which route did you take? You told me that. Time? You’ve told me that. Did you enter the apartment? You’ve told me that. Who did you talk to? You’ve told me that. Did you talk to ? You’ve told me that. Did you notice anything unusual?” Reply "No, definitely not. It was err pretty much what I would expect, you know, go into the apartment, there was certainly no atmosphere, there was nothing, no disquiet between the children or , you know it was just very normal, just happy children playing and ready for bed.” 01:12:53 1485 "How long did the conversation take? Well you said between three and five minutes. Did you see the children? Well yes you did, you’ve said that, including . What were the children doing? Well you’ve said that they were just standing around.” Reply "Mm, I mean they were interacting, playing a bit and you know they’re looking at me and perhaps have a, you know, but certainly…” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Behaving normally for kids at that age.” Okay. Moving on a little bit to and , because they like, because you know they’re into aren’t they?” Reply "They are.” 1485 "They seem to be playing every day.” Reply "Yes.” 1485 "Virtually. Do you know whether they took their own kit out?” 00:03:23 Reply "Err no they didn’t.” 1485 "They didn’t take the kit out?” Reply "No.” 1485 "But when I said…” Reply "Oh sorry when you say the kit…” 1485 "When I say kit.” Reply "I’m talking about the, err racquet and b*lls they didn’t take.” 1485 "Kit in, you know, kit in general is gonna mean the attire and…” Reply "Err, did they have any specific gear? You know (inaudible) I don’t, I, I don’t recall that they had anything specific you know to play, you know, we all have what we ha, call gear you know, not the stuff that you probably go swimming in and you know…” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Which was appropriate to wear on a court but they weren’t err you know they weren’t water goers, you know they weren’t interested in the water sports side of things.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "So you know they knew there was the side of it and they’d gone along with the interest of playing, you know, some more .” 1485 "So generally what would they wear to play as far as you can recollect?” Reply "Err I’ve got the pictures, err, err yeah again, sorry I can’t remember.” 1485 "Well would it be fair to say it would be t-shirts?” Reply "Oh yes, yeah.” 1485 "Colours?” Reply "Err I mean again I think had a white, a white top err I think he had a, you know, like a polo shirt.” 1485 "Yeah.” 00:04:36 Reply "Err sleeveless, err I, I keep thinking he’s got white trousers err shorts sorry, but I can’t remember.” 1485 "What about a kit bag? Would they have a kit bag with them?” Reply "Err he certainly didn’t have a great big bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn’t have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played…” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "You know, a lot of sport, err if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack. But it certainly wasn’t a big , you know, things that you could put a racquet in.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "It would have been something that had their water in.” 1485 "So as opposed to a bag it’d be something like a rucksack, if at all?” Reply "If, if at all, yeah.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "And is that the same for ?” Reply "Yeah, yeah.” Right. When you had your beach hour on the , so you came off windsurfing and then you had food at the beach bar, where was and ?” 00:11:52 Reply "Err I mean they certainly weren’t at the beach bar err you know there was, as I say it was all parties apart, apart from the MCCANN family and I wasn’t aware what they were doing at that, that moment.” 1485 "About, not long after, well before sorry you went, you left…” Reply "I mean obviously was playing …” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Around that time because you know I knew that I was going up to meet with .” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Sorry, but you know, I’ll make that a bit clearer sorry, when we were doing the water sports and that I know at some stage I think we played and that but I couldn’t say you know what, or they’re in, you know the times we’re around there and I knew that was playing around when we were thinking of going back to, to walk up with him, to play in the evening.” 1485 "So you knew as opposed to seeing them?” Reply "Well I, I knew was you know, around that time sorry that he was going to be playing , but I mean I don’t know, I couldn’t tell you what they were doing earlier on in that afternoon.” 1485 "Yeah. Did you see running along the beach at all?” Reply "I didn’t, no.” 1485 "During that day?” Reply "No.” 1485 "Around the teatime ish side?” Reply "Err, again, again I, sorry to say this again but I, I you know she’d been running quite a bit after err had gone, and, and again it just gets a little bit patchy and you know, I know I saw her on the beach running, but whether that was after or before I can’t remember.” "Well other than, because you played on the third, so other than the third was there any other times that you played with ?” Reply "Oh yeah, err there was, you know one, one evening err there was a fastest serve evening and we had a bit of fun all trying to err you know out the machine which measured how quickly you served, so you know, that was the evening that we played, I’m sure there must have been another time that we’d had a knock as well.” When was the first time that you saw and on that ?” Reply "? Again, I can’t, you know the only moments I can definitely say is when I saw before the and then I saw but you know there must have been some other time during the day but I’m not sure.” 00:33:26 1485 "So seeing in the apartment…” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "Was that the first time that you saw her that day?” Reply "I, I can’t, I can’t recall seeing her before that but I’m not saying that I didn’t see her.” (Message edited by TinLizzy On 04/06/2010 8:48 AM) |
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Re：TENNIS Table THURSDAY (with T9 Loctions) Date Posted：05/30/2010 3:45 AMCopy HTML albym wrote: Processos Volume IV 943 to 947—Witness statement of Rachel M. J. Oldfield 2007.05. Rachael Mampilly Oldfield May 2007 An Alby translation cleaning up the google ----- She confirmed the truth of the statements made to the Police Department on 04/05/2007 and is ready to provide any additional clarifications. ----- She stayed in apartment "5B", which is located immediately next to the apartment of the MCCANN family. That on 03/05/2007, Thursday, she rose between 06H30 and 07:00, along with her husband MATHEW and their daughter G***e of 19 months. ----- At 07H50, they went to the restaurant "MILLENNIUM", on foot, arriving by 08.00 to have breakfast. She stated that they had been the first of the group to arrive, and, later, came David and Fiona, and two children, then RUSSEL with his children. JANE did not come because that morning she did not feel well. They took the usual route, alone, having left the apartment by the main door, which was locked, turned right, just after that a left, reaching the main road that led to the said restaurant. They took breakfast together at the same table, including the children. ----- When the breakfast was over, by 09H00, the deponent took her daughter to "nursery" next to the "tapas", while her husband MATHEW was with RUSSEL to take his daughter E**a to "nursery" at the main reception. The witness says she returned to her apartment, did some cleaning and changed clothes as she had scheduled a tennis lesson for llH00. At 09H45 she left the apartment and went to the swimming pool area where she read a book and talked with KATE until llH10, the time at which she went to the tennis courts since the lesson was delayed slightly. At that time her husband MATHEW arrived also to play tennis until about 12.10 pm. ----- After class, they collected [took up] their daughter and went to the apartment of David Payne and FIONA, where thay had lunch all together. At 13h45, the three returned to their apartment, where they put down her daughter who slept for about two hours. The deponent went to play tennis with JANE until 15.00, while her husband MATHEW went to the balcony of RUSSEL to talk, or vice versa, she doesn't know exactly, their apartment being located to the side of his and there is only one other apartment between the two. ----- After the game of tennis, the witness returned home to rest, her husband and RUSSEL having gone to the beach of Luz to sail. At about 15:45, her daughter having woken up, she took her to the beach of Luz in the company of DIANE, Jane, Fiona and their respective children, where they found MATHEW, RUSSEL and DAVTD. At 17H30 the children dined in one of restaurants by the beach, [she] not having detected any abnormal or strange situation. ----- By 18:30, the women and children returned from the beach in the direction of the "OCEAN CLUB" with a view to seeing their husbands play tennis, who had returned from the beach about five minutes before. Prior to going to the apartment she was with the children in the playground area, next to the "tapas", until about 19.00. ----- Then she went to the apartment where she gave her daughter a bath, MATHEW returning at 19.15. The washed and dressed and put their daughter to bed by 19:45. The deponent and her husband took a bath, dressed and went to the restaurant "TAPAS" around 20H40. They left by the main door, which they locked, arriving at the "TAPAS" about two minutes later. She emphasized that the back door was closed and properly locked. ----- When she arrived at the restaurant there was KATE, Gerald and Jane who were talking to another couple who were not part of the group. RUSSEL had not yet arrived because he was singing the daughter to sleep, according to what she was told by JANE. ----- The deponent states that she sat more or less facing the back of the apartment and MATHEW, on the side of the table, you her left. She does not know if, from that position, he could the the back door of the apartment where Madeleine was, it being that, in her case, she could only see the top end/edge. ----- Then RUSSEL arrived and after another 10 minutes, when it would be around 20H55, the PAYNE family - David, Fiona and DIANE - arrived. About a minute before the PAYNEs arrived, her husband MATHEW got up from the table and said he was going to go, taking the opportunity [of the Payne's tardiness?] "to listen" to the children. She states that, according to those what they [the Paynes] told her, MATHEW passed them on his way out. After about 4 minutes, MATHEW returned to the table when they ordered the food, and said he had "listened" to his daughter and to the RUSSEL and MCCANN children, outside the front by putting his head [ear] against the shutters of the windows of their respective bedrooms and that everything was calm with the children. Both ate fish and salad, the deponent drank white wine and MATHEW [drank] red wine, she thought that, at the time, one glass each. ----- By 21.05, GERALD went see his children, and about 10 minutes later JANE left before GM had returned. A few minutes after Jane left GERALD arrived and said he had been talking to "Jez" about tennis, [she] not recalling if he said anything about the children. During this time she affirmed that no one else left the table. Two or three minutes after the arrival of Gerald, Jane arrived, [she] again not recalling whether [Jane] made any comment about her children. ----- At 21H20 they began to dine, and, at 21.30, her husband MATHEW said that he would go to see to his daughter, G***e. The witness offered to go in his place, but he did not accept. RUSSEL also stood up saying that he would also go to see his children. When they were both standing, KATE said the same, namely, that she would also go to see her children. At that point, presumably, she cannot be sure, if her husband MATHEW or RUSSEL volunteered to go to see KATE's children, and she them that they would have to enter by the back door, which was unlocked. RUSSEL and MATHEW left at the same time. About five minutes later, MATHEW returned saying that the children were all well, and that RUSSEL had stayed in the bedroom as one of his daughters was crying. ----- By 21H40/21H45, when they were at dinner, Jane said that he was going to replace RUSSEL so that he could eat, since she had already eaten. About five minutes later RUSSEL returned to the table saying that his daughter E**e was sick and had vomited, [he] starting to dine afterwards. ----- About 21H55/22H00 KATE got up from the table and went alone to her apartment in order to see her children. Five to ten minutes later, she returned the table, crying, visibly shaken, saying that Madeleine had disappeared. Immediately, all of the group, except DIANE, stood up heading for the apartments, and the witness went to see if her daughter was well. Soon after, the men of the group started to do a search around the apartments in an attempt to find the child, at which time the KATE said that the window blinds of MADELEINE's bedroom were open and, as such, she had been taken by someone. ----- The deponent states that she did not enter the bedroom of MADELEINE, thinking that MATHEW her husband also had not done. Then, they extended the search to more distant areas, and her husband headed to the main reception to see if he could find MADELEINE there, since her "nursery" was there, that also being the place he contacted the local police authorities. ----- They continued the search with the help of more people, which resulted in nothing. Further that, about 10 minutes after KATE raised the alarm about the disappearance, the deponent was with JANE in the apartment of the latter. While talking, the JANE told her that when she came to see their children and passed Gerald talking to "Jez", she saw a man with a child, supported in the arms, which would not be a baby and could have been more or less the age of MADELEINE. Also she said that when she saw the man, it seemed strange because he was walking very fast and had a child wearing pyjamas, without any other piece of clothing. That she questioned her [about it], JANE said to the deponent that at the time she had said nothing because she knew nothing of the disappearance of Madeleine and she had not seen the face of the child. Asked, says that, initially JANE focused more on the description of the man and, only a few days later, did she make reference to the clothes that the child would have worn, which would be pyjamas, not recalling if [when] she made a comprehensive description of clothing, especially at the color or design. ----- Questioned, she said that on Thursday, 03/05/2007, there was no body sitting at the table, strange to the group, and she does not know anyone with the name "IRWIN." ----- She added that it was David Payne who organized this trip, and the apartment where she was already intended at the time she made the check in, there not having been any choice. ----- She does not have any suspicion in relation to the facts under investigation, stressing that in the holiday period preceding the day of the disappearance she did not find anything abnormal or strange. ----- Concerning the monitoring of the children every half hour, it was inspired by the system that "MARK Warner" has and that it is known as "baby listening" and she had used this service in 2006 when they stayed at a holiday resort in Greece. ----- Questioned, said that no part of the group rented, or was carried in a vehicle, so movement was always made on foot, they only travelled by bus on the day of arrival, on the route between the Faro airport and the "OCEAN CLUB." ----- She got to know the family MCCANN at the marriage of David and Fiona, in Italy in 2003, at which time MADELEINE was already 4 months old. She does not know of any enemies. ----- She has no knowledge, in addition to their group, of other friends of the family of MADELEINE, who may have been in Portugal during the period in which occurred the facts. ----- That, in the the photographs she took during this holiday, there are recorded only the various members of the group. Questioned, she states that during the holiday period she went to lunch at the apartment of David and Fiona, and that MADELEINE entered the apartment of the deponent at some time. ----- Questioned, she said that on the day they arrived, her husband MATHEW felt sick with diarrhea and vomiting, a situation that lasted until Sunday morning. Furthermore, on Wednesday, in the early morning, she also felt sick with the same symptoms.   |
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