Best friends often have an accepted commitment to protect each other, but why would casual acquaintances risk protecting others at the expense of becoming involved in what is believed to be a simulated abduction?

 

[b]Who were good friends and who were casual acquaintances?[/b]

 

[quote]DAVID PAYNE'
- myself and Fiona trained in Leicester err where we graduated from err we both, we met when we were at Medical School and err yeah on the whole we’ve worked in the Leicestershire err region
- Russell, err who I knew through, he was in my year at medical school, err subsequently obviously I knew Jane through Russell.
- Fiona had worked with Kate and that’s how I got to know Kate and Gerry,
- we have probably a, just a, not a tight band of friends but you know its generally the same people, so the people who went, you know a lot of people came our wedding in Italy, who we subsequently had perhaps been on holiday with but we still stay in touch with. Err and if we socialise with anyone then it tends to be the same, same groups of, same group of people, the majority of them medical, obviously apart from Jane and Rachael of course.”
- Kate and Gerry being in Leicestershire, Russell and Jane were in the Leicestershire region as well up until last year when they moved err to Exeter. Err and then Matt and Rachael, they also you know were originally in Leicestershire and they’ve moved down err working in London. Err but, you know, other friends we have, you know we have friends dotted around the country err but you know those are the main.”
- we went away with Kate and Gerry and other friends err to Majorca
-  we subsequently had been away with err Russell, Jane, and Matt and Rachael err on another group holiday err the year after that
- we knew that Kate and Gerry had met Russell and Jane
-  I think Matt and Rachael and Russell and Jane had been on a Mark Warner type holiday
- in the end you know we just thought oh it’s a great holiday there’s, everybody knows everybody and that we would have a very good time there
- we would fly out from East Midlands with Kate and Gerry
- I went into Kate and Gerry’s apartment right, you know from the beginning to sort out one of the cots because I don’t think they, you know, there was a spare one
- I notice you say that you didn’t see much of Kate and Gerry and you that sparsely see Russell
- quite often if I remember Matt and Rachael would bring G***e along and you know we’d eat there together. Err a lot of the time we didn’t tend to see you know Kate and Gerry you know it was more Russell and Jane primarily I remember, and sometimes Matt and Rachael and G***e but generally err Kate and Gerry would do their own thing err you know during the day,
- L*** and E**a you know they’ve grown up from very little together so it was always nice for them to, to, you know to join up together
- I always spent quite a lot of time with Kate during the hours of, of err Friday
- I’ve known Jane for a few years, you know, she’s an extremely strong character, she’s you know very reliable and you know she speaks her own mind and you know, and if that’s what she has seen then you know I’m a hundred percent sure that that’s what she’s seen.”
-  Kate’s obviously very good friends with err Fiona and I’m, you know, very good friends with Gerry
-  I was with Kate for quite a number of hours where I was sat with her at the err Police Station in Portimão
- Fiona first worked with Kate err at an anaesthetic registrar and I was doing research back in two thousand, err so that’s you know we ended up going out err for the night and then you know we’re very good friends ever since. Err we went away to err Lanzarote err that was gonna be about two thousand and three, they came to our wedding later in two thousand and three. We went to Majorca with them a year later and again had a very good you know holiday with them there. You know we see them, you know re, you know quite frequently, we’ve always got on extremely well. Err the more I know Gerry the more I like the guy, err and it works great you know because Fiona has a really good relationship with Kate, I get on really well with Gerry, you know I get on well with Kate as well. Our kids all get on well together and you know we, you know they, you know they are just such lovely people they’ve got time for absolutely every, anybody and to hear the things that have been said about them again is just, you know it’s completely err heartbreaking really because they are, they’re just, they are the salt of the earth they really are.”
00:27:42 1485 "Have you ever been at Kate and Gerry’s home when their children have been at home? And if so, how many times?”
Reply "Yes, I mean we, err we know them when they were err living at, obviously when they were at Queniborough first, we’ve known Madeleine ever since, you know she’s err been around and we went over to see them in Amsterdam as well and you watched Madeleine, you know, we were all the staying there together then since the twins have been around we’ve been round as well so we’ve been many, many times you know when they’ve been together, you know the children have been there err so yeah.”
1485 "Were your children present as well?”
Reply "Yeah, yeah, you know because obviously between the five children and we’ve known them ever since, before we’ve had children and then when each one’s come along you know we’ve always been, you know each family’s been pleased for the other family if you like and there’s always, you know wanted to be available when you, your children are being born and congratulate and to help and err and so I think you know ever since we’ve known them and since we had children we’ve always been around.”
00:28:55 1485 "And the next question is have you ever been on holiday with them before? Well yes you have.”
- how often did you meet Kate and Gerry during the holiday between the twenty eighth and the third? I think we’ve already covered that haven’t we.”
Reply "Yeah, yeah. Less frequently than probably other people but we all met up, and certainly in the evenings and play time.”
1485 "How often did you see Madeleine…”
Reply "Sorry can I just go back to that?”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "I mean also there was times when we you know did the picking up at the crèche, you know L*** was always at the same crèche as Sean and Amelie so I would generally meet Gerry you know err when we, when the crèche had finished in the morning, when, because that was the only time that err L*** went there so I either, generally saw either Kate or Gerry at that time.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "So that was also another moment that we generally linked up.”
1485 "Well other than, because you played tennis on the third, so other than the third was there any other times that you played tennis with Gerry?”
Reply "Oh yeah, err there was, you know one, one evening err there was a fastest serve evening and we had a bit of fun all trying to err you know out the machine which measured how quickly you served, so you know, that was the evening that we played, I’m sure there must have been another time that we’d had a knock as well.”
- 1485 "It’s one of the earlier interviews, somebody had mentioned that primarily it was, other than Jane, it was all the males that did all the running about, would that be about right?”
Reply "I mean as I say I remember Matt and Russell going, I remember Gerry going and remember the, you know, Jane you know, err I can’t remember whether Rachael left the table or not, but the…”
1485 "Dianne?”
Reply "Err I don’t think, I don’t think Dianne left the table, I don’t remember seeing her move.”
1485 "Fiona?”
Reply "No.”
00:36:07 1485 "Did you see Gerald leaving the table during the meal? Well we discussed that about why and what time, for how long, and, but you said when he returned, did he act any differently when he returned?”
Reply "No, no.”
1485 "And again these are sort of questions relating to the same thing with different individuals.”
Reply "Yeah.”
1485 "So when, did you see Jane leave the table? And what time? For how long?”
Reply "Mm, err as I say I can’t remember exactly how long people left, the longest anyone left was, was you know I can remember is Russell and again that was because in terms of you know the food issue.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "And err but you know certainly everyone else I don’t remember them going for a particularly long time, I’d expect them to walk up to the apartment, look at their, err respective children and then walk back.”
00:37:08 1485 "Obviously that relates as well to Matthew, which you’ve covered, Russell which you’ve covered, Kate which you’ve covered, was that the one and only time that Kate left the table when she came back and raised the alarm?”
Reply "I believe so.”
1485 "According to your…”
Reply "According to my memory yeah.”
-
we were the, the main friends for Kate and Gerry out the group there and err we wanted to provide as much support as we, as we could and I think the other thing was that Gerry ended up coming back to the UK and we felt that it was a good time, you know, to support Kate and be there while he’d gone so that not everyone had gone.”[/quote]

 

FIONA PAYNE
- I’d been on holiday with Dave, erm, and our children, with Matt and Rachael and their child, G***e, and Russ and Jane and their two children and we’d been to Greece for a week. Erm, it wasn’t a MARK WARNER, it was, erm, I can’t remember which company it was with, but it was a very small holiday, erm, environment, where you sort of had all the walled off area with a few villas and a shared pool and a restaurant, erm, and we had a great time and we’ve all got very young children and the kids had a great time. So the, the idea was sort of seeded, you know, that it would be nice to do a similar thing again. We’d also been on the year before a kind of, another group villa holiday with friends, Kate and Gerry being, erm, one of that group. So we just found with young children it was a really nice way of, of having a holiday. So it was our suggestion I think, erm, January time, it was just after Christmas, erm, you know, I’d just gone back to work, I was going back to work in March and just wanted something to sort of look forward to. Erm, and the others, again Jane and, erm, Russell and Matt and Rachael had been on MARK WARNER holidays before and had really enjoyed it as had Dave and I.
- I generally walked with Scarlet to the baby club, erm, with or without either Jane, Russell, Kate, erm, I’d sometimes meet Kate or Gerry dropping Madeleine off there, erm, and then Dave would take L*** over to the kids club which was back near the, behind the Tapas Bar area
- every day, we fed the kids in our apartment and usually Matt and Rachael came, would come up and Russ and Jane were there and the kids and usually Kate and Gerry had theirs in their apartment, mainly because their, they just found it easier”. -
 I’m trying to think if they came up earlier on in the week, I don’t, I think they might have, might have had the odd lunch, but, on the whole, they’d sort of, they did their own thing at lunchtime
- me, Dave, our children. Erm, Russ and Jane with their kids. I think, again, some mornings one of them would be on their own. Erm, tut, I’m trying to remember the mornings, phew. It was one morning Russ was on his own, erm, with E**a, because E**e hadn’t been particularly, she had a runny nappy or something and had been up in the night and so Jane was sleeping in. I couldn’t tell you what day that was. Erm, and Matt and Rachael were pretty much there every morning, I mean, I think most mornings I saw Matt and Rachael with G***e. Erm, but the others, as I say, Kate and Gerry were never there after the first morning, my mum was never there after the first morning, erm, you know, that’s”.
- I’m ninety-nine percent sure, erm, everybody, bar Kate and Gerry and the children, had come for lunch”.
- We went for lots of runs before and after, sometimes with Matt. I did one with Matt and Dave, I can’t remember if that was before Madeleine went missing or after, erm, I think before. Everyone was into running. Rachael did runs, Kate did runs, often they did, Kate was mad, often would go out early when it was sort of hotter, I can’t understand that, but (laughs), erm, and Rachael I’m aware went for runs and Jane as well. But, in terms of going with people, Dave and I, erm, definitely went together, on other nights we went alone and on one occasion went with Matt and I think that was probably before Madeleine went missing, before the Thursday night”.
- But it had been so kind of cool in the afternoons it, erm, hadn’t been much fun. So I don’t want to commit to the fact that we went there, I think Thursday may well have been”.

 

1485
“The first time?”

 

Reply
“We definitely went on the Thursday and I think that might have been the first time we actually did that as a group, minus Kate and Gerry”.

 

1485
“Right”.

 

Reply
“Erm, and I think why I’m thinking that is, I know Kate and Gerry did go to the beach, I think they tried to have lunch on the beach with the kids on one of the previous days and we didn’t, you know, and that’s maybe why I’m getting confused”.

 

1485
“Are you able to say what day that was that you think?”

 

Reply
“Again, I couldn’t tell you. We didn’t really see Kate and Gerry for any lunchtimes, but I know one of those, I remember Kate saying it was a bit of a disaster, because Sean put his feet on the sand and didn’t like it and it was cold and windy and it was all a bit of a disaster, so they didn’t do it again. Erm, tut, yeah, so, you know, I am backtracking, but I think Thursday was the first day that we went down after the sleep time”.

 

00.03.35
1485
“Right. Is it fair to say that, I mean, you mentioned earlier on in the interview that you didn’t, the only time you really saw Kate and Gerry was at the Tapas?”

 

Reply
“Umm”.

 

1485
“Is it fair to say that that is”.

 

Reply
“We saw them round and about during the day, erm, you know like in the afternoon, when I’m saying when our kids were asleep. I remember one afternoon I wandered down to the pool, erm, you know, while Dave and mum were up in the apartment, and sat and had a diet Coke by the pool with them, they’d just finished a tennis lesson, you know. So things like that, in passing, but we didn’t really do any activities altogether”.
- Did you see Madeleine and the twins during the day up until Thursday?”

 

Reply
“Not, not very often. Erm, I mean, the twins probably a bit more, just because picking, you know, picking L*** up at lunchtime or whatever, erm, they’d be picking the twins up. And then at high tea we’d see the kids altogether, that was really the only kiddie time, when they were all together and with Madeleine and the twins. Erm, and then after, after teatime when they’d all play. But that, that was the main part of the day where we saw, erm, Kate and Gerry and, and, you know, the children, their children”.

 

- I’ve known Kate since two thousand and ever since I’ve known her she’s wanted children, you know, very early on in our friendship that was, you know, something she openly talked about. And they did have difficulties having children and, erm, you know, we’ve been very close friends throughout the whole time of their IVF, having Madeleine, and they, she was the most desired child on the planet”.
-

 

 

 

DW: "Err yes I’d met them all previously, I knew err Jane and Russell probably better than any of them, I knew Kate and Gerry err Rachael I’d met before but I think, I don’t remember meeting Matt although I think they were at Fiona and Dave’s wedding I may have met him before but err I didn’t meet him really until, or get to know him until that holiday.”

 

PC: "And was it just at Fiona and Dave’s wedding that you’d met the others or more frequent than that?”

 

DW: "Well no I knew err Jane and Russell because when they lived in Leicester they, well Russell was Dave’s best man and err I knew, I knew them before, before then err and I’m trying to think actually, I know I’d met Jane but I don’t think I’d met Russell err but they were close friends of err Fiona and Dave until they moved away to Exeter.”

 

PC: "And were Gerry and Kate…”

 

DW: "And Gerry and Kate I didn’t meet them till Fiona and Dave’s wedding but I knew of them because I knew they were err Fiona and Dave’s err friends err and I knew they’d been on holiday with them before. I remember seeing photographs of Kate and Gerry on holiday with them and Kate was pregnant with Madeleine at the time.”

 

PC: "Okay, so just to summarise then, Jane and Russell you were quite familiar with.”

 

DW: "Mm.”

 

PC: "And the others you’d sort of met them and you got to know them as the holiday went on.”

 

DW: "Well I mean I, I’d obviously met Kate and Gerry after Fiona’s wedding several times when they were round at Fiona’s err house visiting, you know if we were up there visiting Fiona and Dave and they came round err so yes I had, I did know them err quite well by the time the holiday came round.”

 

---
PC: "For how long have you known Kate and Gerry MCCANN?”

 

DW: "Err I first met them at Fiona’s wedding which was in September two thousand and three.”

 

PC: "And what kind of relationship is there between you and the MCCANN couple?”

 

DW: "Err well I mean I only know them because they’re friends of err Fiona and Dave’s, but err I’ve always got on very well with them, very nice couple and, you know, I couldn’t say anything bad about them at all.”

 

PC: "Have you ever visited them at their home address with their children being present?”

 

DW: "Err no I’ve never visited them at, at home. The only time I’ve been near their house is when we were going on holiday when we, we left…”

 

PC: "Yeah.”

 

DW: "There, from their house.”

 

PC: "And the next question is, have you already spent holidays with them? Well I know the answer to that, you haven’t.”

 

DW: "No, no.”

 

PC: "How often would you meet Kate and Gerry during the holiday time period between the twenty eighth of April and the third of May?”

 

DW: "How many times?”

 

PC: "Mm, how often, generally. I mean you said it was Kate in the mornings at tennis.”

 

DW: "Well yes I mean err and then we’d all see each other in the evening but then we’d also see each other at certain times during, during the course of the day depending on err what everybody was doing.”

 

PC: "Mm.”

 

DW: "On that day.”

 

PC: "And how often would you see their children, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie?”

 

DW: "Well again err on a daily basis but a lot of the time when I saw them, because they were at kids club during err during the day, not as, I think morning and afternoon I’m not sure, err most of the time when I saw them was err when they were having high tea and err then afterwards in the playing area, and sometimes round the swimming pool err so yeah I would say I’d see, I’d see them err on a fairly regular basis, yeah.”

 

 

 

[b]Who knew what happened and why did they choose to follow the 'plan'?[/b]