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TinLizzy
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Date Posted:03/01/2010 2:18 PMCopy HTML

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic177.html
Maddie Case Files Index for all statements

Details about Matt leaving the table to hurry the Paynes on May 3 at 9.00pm

Fiona
 
Erm, on the way down, we went down the normal way, as I say, out onto the main road and round the corner. And just as we were approaching, erm, probably outside kind of the, Kate and Gerry’s gate, that sort of area, erm, we bumped into Matt who was heading back to chase us up, erm, and we had a joke, you know, we’re always late. He carried on up to check on G***e and we carried on down to the Tapas Bar and when we got there everyone else, bar Matt, was sat at the table. Erm, again, (inaudible) to get on and order. Erm, you know, there’s nothing else really”.
 
Matt
 around 9.05pm, the interviewee went to the area of the apartments. Notably to the area near the windows of all the children's bedrooms. That he did not hear any noise. That he considered that all the children were sleeping. That all the children's bedroom windows were closed, notably the windows that gave access to the fourth apartment, that occupied by Madeleine. That after this check, he returned to the restaurant, saying that all the children were asleep. However, Gerry, Madeleine's father, went to the area of the apartments to check for himself if the children were asleep. That Gerry allegedly went into his apartment and that he checked to make sure that Madeleine and the twins were sleeping in their bedroom, where it was quite dark. The bedroom door was half-open. That five minutes later, Gerry came back to the group in the restaurant.

 the interviewee does not know if Gerry met anyone while he was checking the children. He did not mention it.The deponent added that DP, FP and DW were still not present – and as he could see their apartment lights burning – he resolved to go to them, clarifying that he did not reach that apartment as those people were already on their way to the restaurant. He clarifies [further] that he met them near the living quarters, at the corner next to the main door of the McCann apartment.
(NOTE: DP, FP saw him in different places and DW said she didnt see him until ROGS after DP and FP reminded her) 

Benefiting from meeting them next to the residences, he adds that, on his own initiative, he made a “listening check” at the bedroom window of MBM and the twins at 21h05. That he limited himself to approach the bedroom window on the outside of the apartment to check if the children were crying or awake.
He adds to have not heard any noise nor perceived anything out of the ordinary. He went on to do the same check at the bedroom windows of his daughter and ROB's daughters.

About 5/10 seconds (minutes?) after the checking he returned to the restaurant seeing that all other group members were already there. They proceeded to order dinner [immediately] after which GM went to his apartment to check his children

Now I don’t recall seeing Jane and Russell there, but I’m told that Jane was there at the time as well. But we got there and sort of chatted and then Russell arrived. And we were all there, apart from Dave and Fiona and Fiona’s mother, Dianne, at sort of five to nine, and they were, they were always sort of fairly relaxed and sort of a bit late and disorganised, I mean, that’s a bit unfair, but they were certainly, they’d always be pretty much the last to arrive, they were always late for most things and you could see the light on in their apartment, you could see it from the Tapas and you could see them moving around so you knew they were still there. And so I decided that I’d go back and short of chivvy them along, because I felt a bit bad that, you know, there’s just us in this restaurant, as there had been most of the week, there weren’t often, erm, on one night they had a quiz and there were a few sort of more tables, erm, around that were occupied, but most of the time it was just us and I felt a bit bad that we said we’d be there at half eight and, you know, it was getting later and later and it was now coming to nine and we hadn’t even got the table there to get ready to order, but by this time in the week we knew what we were going to order, so I told Rach, you know, I’ll have whatever it was, I think it was, erm, probably sardines because, you know, they were pretty good, erm, so I put my order in for her to order if the waiter came back and went to try and sort of chivvy them along. But as I was leaving the Tapas area, you know, and their light going off and knowing that they were coming down and on their way, and on my way up, about at that top corner before you turn left to get round the back, as you go up the top of the hill, we sort of passed on the way down and they were on their way to the restaurant, but it seemed a bit silly not to go ahead and just sort of check on G***e, even though we’d only been down there about fifteen minutes, but that was sort of a convenient time to go and do it. So I went and listened, I went, I found the time, because we’d only just been in there about fifteen minutes ago, and I just listened outside her shutters, so I just passed along that wall that goes to the two, sort of to the McCANN’s apartment, so I listened outside our shutters and went along to their shutter and had a listen out there, not because I’d been asked to, but, or it’s not the sort of thing you think about, it’s just kind of, erm,”.

 DW
 Asked, she adds that she went to the restaurant in the company of her daughter and son-in-law.

Asked directly if someone had gone to her apartment to call them (herself and the PAYNE couple) for dinner the witness said no.

Asked if there was the
possibility of having crossed paths with someone during the journey between her apartment and restaurant, the witness said no.

That night she believes she arrived at the restaurant at around 21:00 in the company of the PAYNE couple.
 That, at that time, the whole group were at the restaurant. The witness did not recall, but thinks that perhaps Gerald and MATT had not been in the restaurant along with the other members of the group.

In this regard, asked specifically whether, on the journey to the restaurant, if they had passed either of the two individuals described in the preceding paragraph, she answered categorically not.
 
DW: "Well we arrived about, I don’t know, ten to nine, five to nine, which was very late. Err and the thing that I didn’t mention at the original err interview in Portugal was that I do vaguely remember seeing Matt, he was coming up because I think he made some joke about coming up to see where we were because we were so late, but he was actually on his way to check err check the children.”

PC: "Right.”

DW: "Err so I do, I do remember that although I didn’t remember it clearly at the time err so we got down to the table err I think we ordered our starters.”

PC: "Do you remember who was there when you got there?”

DW: "Well Matt obviously wasn’t because we we’d just passed him but of course I don’t remember this at the time, and I think in my original statement I thought maybe Gerry wasn’t there, but maybe he was, you know, I don’t know.”

PC: "You can’t be sure?”

DW: "I can’t be sure because it’s not something that I think I need to remember, you know at the time, its not something you need to remember.”

PC: "No, and it was no different from any of the other nights.”

DW: "That’s right.”

PC: "People are coming and going.”

DW: "Yeah it was err we didn’t all sit in the same positions every night, you know, we (inaudible).”

PC: "Can you remember where you sat on that particular night?”

DW: "Err yes I sat sort of with my back almost towards the, err kitchen bit and err Russell was on my right, Matt was on my left and I think it was then Dave and Gerry, Fiona, Kate, Jane and Rachael.”

PC: "So if you were to look straight ahead from where you were sitting, where would you be facing?”

DW: "I’d be, I would be facing to the, err, the apartments would be over there, and I’d be looking towards the exit I suppose.”

PC: "Okay. I have got a plan here. It’s not in relation to the Tapas I’m afraid, but if you’d like to draw a diagram if it would help you then you’re very welcome to. This is just a, it’s a, it’s being referred to as DM2, that’s just an exhibit reference.”

DW: "Yeah.”

-----
PC: "Err, so you’re not sure whether Gerry or not was there when you arrived, and you say you would have ordered your starters.”

DW: "Ordered the starters and err we had our, we had our starters and err we’d ordered our, our main course. Now I can’t remember, I know that err Jane err during that time, you see there, I can’t remember it was Jane or Russell when they went back to check on their children, E**e had been err sick, so I think err I think it might, might have been Russell that found her sick and he came back and I think Jane went back then and that might have been, yeah that must have been at the time when err no, I don’t know. I know they had to sort of err relieve each other because E**e had been sick.”
---------------

DW: "Yeah well at that, that was the point you see, at that time I don’t, I didn’t remember having passed Matt on the way but you know as time’s gone on and, and err I think Dave, Dave or Fiona mentioned it and that’s, I did then remember. As I say things like that at the time are irrelevant to me, they’re not...”

PC: "Yeah, well in any case he never arrived at your apartment to come and call for you did he?”

DW: "No, no, no we passed him on the way down.”

PC: "Then it says that the whole group had met up in the restaurant, you don’t remember but you think it possible that
perhaps Matt and Gerald were not together with the other members of the group in the restaurant. You said earlier on when we spoke that you couldn’t picture Gerry being there.”

DW: "Mm.”

PC: "It may have been a point where he’d gone off to check.”

DW: "Yeah.”

PC: "Err…”

DW: "Which would really tie in the time if you’re allowing half hour intervals, I mean Kate and Gerry were the first to arrive there so…”
 
--
PC: "And you arrived with Fiona and David.”

DW: "Fiona and Dave yeah.”

PC: "And you’ve already said that you think everybody else was present other than Matt who you’d just seen.”

DW: "Mm.”

PC: "Going to check his children, and you can’t picture whether Gerry was there or not.”

DW: "Mm.”

-----
 
PC: "And did you leave the table at all during that dinner on the third of May?”

DW: "Err only to go to the toilet I think, probably.”
 
PC: "And then it says, where did you go and what time did you go? Well that’s not really relevant. (Laughs).”

DW: "(Laughs).”

PC: "How long were you away from the table and why?”

DW: "That’s a very personal question (laughs).”
 
------
 
PC: "Again, what time did you arrive at the Tapas restaurant? Well you’ve already covered that. And who was already there? You’ve already covered that. What were Kate and Gerry doing by the time you arrived?”

DW: "Well my recollection is that, that err I thought, I thought Gerry wasn’t at the table but I can’t be a hundred percent sure. Err but I would have said that, you know, they were just sitting at the table waiting for everybody to arrive so we could order our, start ordering our food.”

PC: "And did you speak to them?”

DW: "I would think so, I spoke to everybody but, you know, I don’t…”

PC: "You can’t recall the specifics?”

DW: "No.”

PC: "What was their behaviour like?”

DW: "Just normal, you know, having a good holiday.”

PC: "And again we’ve already covered this, who left the table during the meal and why? Well you say there was Matthew, Russell and Jane comings and goings, and you don’t recall Gerry being there sometimes, so.”

DW: "Well I know that, I know that err every night, I mean the children were being checked on very regularly but I obviously wasn’t paying attention as to who was going where, when, and I wasn’t even particularly aware that sometimes they would check on each other’s children, i.e. if they were going to check their own they would listen to other people, the doors of other people, but I, I was totally unaware of that.”

PC: "I think…”

DW: "There’s no reason why I would know that.”

PC: "Yeah. I think from what I’ve learnt this week it’s actually the Thursday night was the first night that had actually…”

DW: "That that had happened.”

PC: "Yeah. I’m not wishing to labour this point but did you see Gerry leaving the table during the meal? At what time? How long was he absent? You can’t really (inaudible)…”

DW: "I can’t.”

PC: "No.”

DW: "You know, it’s…”

PC: "Can you say was he behaving or acting differently when he returned?”

DW: "No.”

-----
-------
 
David payne
 Concerning yesterday evening, he states that he, his wife and his mother-in-law arrived at the restaurant at around 8.55pm. According to what he remembers, when they arrived, all the members of the group were present, apart from the children, who were in bed in their respective rooms.
you said that you passed Matt on the way down.”
Reply "Mm.”
1485 "Whereabouts did you pass him?”
Reply "Err…”
1485 "Can you mark, just…”
Reply "Yeah, the err where’s, this is the entrance here into the Tapas area.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "Err my recollection was that we were just got, you know we were round there, I thought we’d actually entered into the Tapas bar to just…”
1485 "Actually into the complex?”
Reply "Just, just into the complex, but certainly we hadn’t made it yet to the swimming pool
but it was just, just about there.”
1485 "Okay.”
Reply "Err yeah.”
00:46:42 1485 "And what time do you think that was?”
Reply "Err we were, we were just before nine, you know just before nine o’ clock err we yeah we went between quarter to and nine o’ clock.”
1485 "And then you sat down, after the comments of course that you…”
Reply "Yes, yeah.”
1485 "Who was there when you got, when you got to the table?”
Reply "Err well, as I say, Gerry was sat next to me, err on my left, and then there was this choice of where Dianne was gonna sit with err, err Matt and err Russell, so those people had to be there, Kate was obviously there, Fiona had walked down with, as well, and err and as for Rachael and Jane I, I cannot say a hundred percent that they were there.”
1485 "What was Gerry doing when you got there?”
Reply "Err I, again my recollection is we sat down and I just started talking to him, but I’m not sure whether that is entirely correct, whether he was having a conversation with somebody else before and then you know I just started talking but my recollection we started, you know, not far after we’d sat down we just started talking and you know, and I say we were just saying, you know what we’d both done and what a fantastic day that we’d had err you know and I know beyond the call of this interview but you know I’d had a lot of stress you know with work and over the last few years and you know it’s, it’s you know two, two young children it’s not been a particularly easy time and you know and for me that was the first day in many, many a month that I’d really enjoyed it and then Gerry had reciprocated and said we also had one of the best days that we’d had in many, many a month. You know that is my recollection of the first thing that happened on that table, but just, whether its because it was such a positive conversation that we’d had, which override the fact that there was other things that had happened before I wouldn’t like to say but in my mind that was the first thing that had happened.”
1485 "Yeah. So did you notice that he got up to go and check Madeleine, or to check his children?”
00:49:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean I, you know I know the people who left the table but I couldn’t tell you what order they left in and I couldn’t tell you what the time is that they left. You know, people have chatted about it, you know we’ve read about it and I’m not prepared to say well I think this is what happened because I’m sure my view’s been tainted by, you know, what we’ve read and what we’ve seen.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "Err but you know I’m, you know it’s, I knew that Russell, you know had had problems because E**e had been ill and he, you know, had left the table you know for err, err quite a few minutes because you know he was having to, you know he came back saying oh he’s had to clean the sheets and she’d been sick and everything and then there was the issue of the err them bringing out his food and they had to re-cook him, you know another meal and then Jane had quickly eaten her meal you know so that she could then leave the table so those things you know, I’m sure, you know, I know happened and unfortunately I can’t be any more helpful in saying this was the time, this is how long they were gone for. Err yeah I know that Gerry left the table, you know, I can remember him, I remember him coming back to say well you know, he wasn’t left, you know he didn’t leave at you know an unreasonable amount of time, it didn’t seem that he was away for particularly long, you know he did make some comment, which I know that if someone else was hearing as a group had said yeah, I’ll say yeah you know that’s what he said, but I can’t remember err entirely, but err you know, the, the conversation at the table in terms of other people leaving and looking at the children was along the lines of you know that it, and again it transpired later that I, that other people were look, you know were popping in as an extra addition to what other people were generally doing in terms of looking after the err children and err you know when Matt came back I remember him saying to somebody oh yeah I’ve looked at, you know and they’re fine you know and that was the way that the other families were, were working it. Err so, you know, apart from Russell who was away a little bit longer because you know what I’ve just explained before, everyone tended to walk up there, then walk back in a time which you would expect them to walk, walk up to the apartment and you know there was no long gaps between anything which you know wasn’t you know explained. Err, so yeah.”
00:51:35 1485 "Do you recall Gerry coming back from his turn and then commenting about speaking to Gez?”
Reply "Err I, you know again, I think I do, and I know that sounds very vague but you know again, just on the context of you know what, what’s been said about the conversation with Gez and this is a very important part of the story, it’s just difficult to say what you, you know what you believe to have happened and what you’ve read has happened.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "But I, you know I do remember some, something along the lines that he’d had a conversation err with Gez but again you know if you’re chatting to someone else and you just perhaps hear something at, at the side, err or you just look up and listen to a bit and then you move onto the conversation.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "Err but some, yeah.”
1485 "Do you recall Jane coming back from her trip? From her visit if you like, shortly after Gerry had come back.”
Reply "I don’t know.”
00:52:39 1485 "And is there anything that sticks in your mind in relation to what anybody’s said when they’d come, apart from the one or two people saying everything’s fine, was there anything else that you can think of that anybody said anything?”
Reply "Err I mean there was nothing you know, I mean, I mean when obviously Russell came back and explained what had gone on and you know with, with E**e, err Matt, you know, had come back and you know said everything’s fine. Err Gerry, you know I, as I say, I think he, I heard him mention that he’d spoken to someone on the way back and I’m not sure if people triggered my memory of that I could get that, that’s it. When Jane came back there was certainly nothing that she said that err you know led us to be worried at that particular stage, you know, the conversation was, was again, was you know oh E**e’s okay and it was a sort of shame that they you know, the situation there with E**e. Err and you know the, the jokes that have been going on earlier and err you know just, yeah generally nothing, nothing really stood out...”
1485 "Yeah.”
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Re:Matt Meets the Paynes

Date Posted:11/09/2010 9:13 PMCopy HTML

Add to their statements where they differ in where they saw each other, it should be noted that there seems to be some contradictions in their early May 4th statements.
<!-- l -->
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post414.html#p414
Quote:
Fiona Payne
May 4th
at around 8.45pm, accompanied by her mother and her husband to go to the "Tapas," restaurant to join the rest of the group. TheMcCann couple were amongst the members of the group at dinner.


Quote:
Dianne Webster
May 4th
They left the apartment at around 8.45 and accompanied by her son-in-law and her daughter, they went to join the rest of the group at the "TAPAS" restaurant.

The McCann couple were amongst the other friends at dinner
.

Quote:
David Payne
May 4th
Concerning yesterday evening, he states that he, his wife and his mother-in-law arrived at the restaurant at around 8.55pm. According to what he remembers, when they arrived, all the members of the group were present, apart from the children, who were in bed in their respective rooms.




Quote:
Matthew
May 4th
That the couple Kate and Gerry, Madeleine's parents were already at the restaurant. That they had arrived at the restaurant five minutes before them. The rest of the adults arrived at the restaurant around five minutes after the interviewee and his wife. That the last to arrive at the restaurant was the couple David and Fiona. That the latter arrived at the restaurant at around 9pm.

That around 9.05pm, the interviewee went to the area of the apartments.
Notably to the area near the windows of all the children's bedrooms. That he did not hear any noise. That he considered that all the children were sleeping. That all the children's bedroom windows were closed, notably the windows that gave access to the fourth apartment, that occupied by Madeleine. That after this check, he returned to the restaurant, saying that all the children were asleep.


David claims everyone was there when he arrived, Matthew claims the Paynes arrived AND AFTERWARDS, five minutes later he went to the apartments.

Now...Seems they changed the situation between May 4th and May 10th interviews....

Why? If, until that point, nothing had happened to Madeleine and it was just a 'normal' evening?
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