Rachael Mampilly

 So G***e went to crèche erm, can’t remember what I did, probably tried to get some sun, it was quite, a bit chilly though but erm, erm and then erm we would have picked up G***e from crèche at sort of twelve, half twelve I think and then that first day I think we just had lunch sort of in the Tapas but you know the menu wasn’t really that suitable for your kids, erm and then took her back to the room to have a sleep, erm and then while she slept you know, we just kind of read outside on the, on the balcony on the veranda, erm that morning, there might have been some sort of tennis, you know social I think perhaps”.
00.27.18 1578 “This is on the Sunday”?
Reply “On the Sunday, erm, might yeah,

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Erm Matt did go down to the beach and do bits of sailing and I think I just you know, kind of read my book and sat by the pool, erm was usually in the mornings while G***e was in crèche and then you know we’d always get her at twelve or half twelve, whatever it was, I think it went ‘til half twelve, so you know pick her up between those times and then after that Sunday, every day after that we ate, we all had lunch in erm Dave and Fi’s apartment, erm it was you know, pasta or something for the kids and Diane would make sandwiches for all of us”.
1578 “What time would that lunch period be”?
Reply “It, erm about one really, by the time those kids were actually eating, it was probably about one-ish, so between one and two, erm Gerry and Kate didn’t come up and have lunch there, erm because the twins didn’t sleep in the afternoon, so they’d often you know, take a picnic and go down to the beach erm. I remember one, I think it might have been on the Monday that they came up to Dave and Fi’s after, sort of after lunch but otherwise they did their own thing at lunch time and the rest of us went up to Dave and Fi’s apartment and the kids had lunch there and you know we’d have a bite to eat as well and then we’d take, we’d take G***e down for a sleep and you know, so she was generally sleeping between two and four there, which is a bit later really than she normally does in the UK”.

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 then I think it must have been at about ten thirty, Madeleine and E**a and their sort of group came to have a tennis lesson as part of their crèche activities, erm and Kate didn’t have her camera and Jane was there then as well and Jane took some photos of both Madeleine and E**a, that’s one, that poster of Madeleine with the tennis b*lls, that sort of pictures”. 00.51
00.51.21 1578 “That was taken on the”?
Reply “Yeah that was that morning”.
1578 “Thursday”?
Reply “Yeah, erm so we sort of watched them have their tennis lesson, erm and there were a few other parents there, sort of taking photos and that sort of thing, erm and then they headed back off to crèche and then Matt came up from the beach and we had our tennis lesson at eleven with Dan, who’s you know, one of the coaches there, erm and then yeah that, well that went ‘til twelve and then basically we got G***e from the crèche then, erm and then erm I think we went to Dave and Fi’s you know, for lunch as usual, Dave and Fi’s apartment, erm and then when G***e was having her sleep, erm Jane and I went down to the tennis court and had a hit, erm cos she’d had her lesson that morning and I’d had mine so, we had about an hour hitting, just hitting the ball really, erm and Gerry and Kate were watching and erm and then we went back up and G***e was still asleep I think, so was E**e, erm so Matt and Russell went down to the beach to go sailing and you know, Jane and I said we’d get the kids up and then we’d head down to the beach when they were up, erm and then I think we ended up going down to the beach perhaps about, must have been about four, half four, something like that and Diane and Fiona and Lilly and Scarlet came down as well, can’t remember where Dave was, I think Dave had gone windsurfing, yeah he, he was down at the beach as well, he’d gone windsurfing, erm so we just headed down to the beach,

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But the only time we needed to check was you know when we were having dinner cos that, that was the only time that you know G***e was left by herself, when she’s having her lunch time naps you know, we just sat on the balcony, we didn’t check, you know we didn’t check then that she was in the room, I mean you know, erm and otherwise she was in crèche or we was at erm”.

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ROB

 I think, where it says ‘We generally ate with Rachael and Matt’, erm, ‘and this was in our apartment or theirs’, I think it could be worth saying there ‘We also ate in’, erm, ‘Fiona and Dave’s flat’ full-stop. ‘And then after Madeleine disappeared we all began eating in Dave and Fiona’s’, well ‘We all began eating lunch at Dave and Fiona’s apartment very, very, very regularly’, that became the focus for us all. So just the addition of, erm, ‘and sometimes at Fiona and’”.
1578 “’We didn’t eat out at lunchtime we generally ate with Rachael and Matt’?”
Reply “’And this was in our apartment or theirs or also Fiona and Dave’s’, that’s probably the easiest way of just adding it without changing the whole thing. So there was a, there was a sort of a circuit of lunches where all the kids would get together and after Madeleine disappeared we generally ate lunch at Dave and Fiona’s apartment”.
1578 “So we include ‘or theirs/Dave and Fiona’?”
Reply “Dave and Fi as well, yeah. And then the next bit is fair enough, which is fair enough there that ‘After Madeleine disappeared we began eating’ maybe just ‘lunch at Dave and Fiona’s apartment regularly’. Erm, at the end, the next paragraph is fair, you know, it’s fair enough I think, I think that’s fine.

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Reply “Yeah. I think rather than, erm, at one point I know, erm, Madeleine and Sean and Amelie did eat lunch in, in Dave and Fi’s apartment, so rather than ‘each day’ it might be worth just saying ‘most days’. I think they, they generally, erm, had their lunch separate, I think. So it says ‘Kate and Gerry had lunch in their apartment as they did each day’, but there was certainly an occasion on one of them, sort of a Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, erm, that they, that they ate up in, you know, we were all, all the kids were together at one point, it was a bit of a squeeze with everyone in there”.
1578 “So do you want to?”
00.43.43 Reply “Just change it to ‘most days’ and then at least it, because it certainly wasn’t sort of every day. It says ‘I want out’, erm, erm, I think it should probably say ‘I went out’. I think the conversation we were having there is actually I think me and Matt”.
1578 “It should be ‘went’, shouldn’t it?”
Reply “It should be ‘Went out in the afternoon to the beach’. And I think this is, what we were saying at this point is, erm, I think me and Matt actually went kayaking. And I don’t know”.
1578 “’I went out in the afternoon near to the beach’?”
Reply “Well ‘to the beach’, I think possibly me and Matt may have kayaked”.
1578 “So we will cross-out ‘near to the beach’ and ‘think’?”
Reply “’Matt and I went kayaking’. I think Dave came, yeah, maybe even Dave came as well. There was, there was several on one occasion, the three, the three of us”.
1578 “’Kayaking, possibly with Dave’?”
Reply “Possibly, but certainly with Matt and maybe, erm, ‘with Matt and possibly also Dave’. There was one, there was one occasion when the three of us took the kayaks out. And I’m not quite sure what the next bit is, ‘Saw your children with their Nannies at the Mini Club. We met at the Tapas Bar’. I think this is actually, this is, that’s, this is me describing what happened at the end of the afternoon, the afternoon Mini Club. At the end of the morning session we generally had to pick them up from Ocean Club, at the end of the afternoon session the Nannies would bring them up on a little kind of plastic chain, all the kids would sort of hold onto a thing”.
1578 “Yes”.
Reply “And they would walk them through that garden I described on Tuesday and they’d come across the road and go to high tea about five o’clock. So I think, you know, certainly we wouldn’t go to the beach and ‘Saw the children with their Nannies at the Mini Club’, I mean, we went to the beach had a kayak and the children came back to high tea at about half five, erm, brought back by the Nannies from Ocean Club”.
00.45.05 1578 “’The children came back about half five to high tea’?”
Reply “Yeah, from, ‘from Ocean Club accompanied by the Nannies’ which is what they did every day. Maybe, erm, this is just the description of, of what tended to happen. As I say, we didn’t have, you didn’t have to do a pick up at”.
1578 “’The children came back about five thirty pm from Ocean Club’?”
Reply “Yeah, five fifteen, five thirty, yeah”.
1578 “’To’?”
Reply “’To the Tapas area’, there was a sort of raised covered area where they would sit all the kids down and they would bring them out their food, so they were fed separately”.
1578 “’For high tea’?”
Reply “Yeah, I’d never heard of the word ‘high tea’ until I’d been to MARK WARNER. Erm, okay, yeah, I think there’s, I mean, certainly days that were generally uneventful and nothing kind of sticks out in my mind about anything unusual that gave us any suggestion that we were in for, you know, for the events that we were in for”.
1578 “Umm”.

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“’Went to the flat with E*** No, I didn’t leave Ev***the flat. It says ‘Went to the flat with E***whileshe was resting I went outside to watch Jane play tennis’. I think I was sat and, I went to the flat with E**erm, she, I think she did have a snooze that morning, erm, and I read a book and played with her and then, at some stage, I think when Jane had finished playing tennis, I then went out with E** play tennis”.
1578 “Right. So we just need to add in there then?”
Reply “Well if it just said that, you know, well E*camewith me to watch the tennis, E*wasn’t in the flat on her own at that point during the day. ‘Went to the flat with E* read a book, later me and E*went outside to watch Jane play tennis’ full-stop. Maybe, ‘I believe I saw Madeleine at lunchtime’, I’m sure that, erm. And it says ‘I can’t recall if I collected El*or whether she was brought up by the Nannies, it’s all a bit hazy now’, I think I can probably say the Nannies did not bring the children back at the end of the morning session because there was no tea, they weren’t bringing them back sort of thing. So I think I can probably, I can probably clarify there that, erm, ‘Either Jane or I collected El*from the’, erm, ‘from the’, erm, ‘Ocean Club, Mini Club’”.
00.53.16 1578 “’Either Jane or I’?”
Reply “Yeah, and it’s slightly out of order here now. The next paragraph, erm, yeah, the wording, it’s a bit, it’s a bit sort of, I mean, there’s, there’s such a kind of, you know, uncomfortable coincidences next, in this next, but this is out of order, this is before we have gone and collected E** So after I’ve gone out to play tennis, erm, the next couple of paragraphs occur and then ‘We probably saw Madeleine at lunchtime and one of us probably collected El*so it’s slightly out of, it’s slightly out of synch this”.
1578 “So”.
Reply “So these two paragraphs probably are going to go in at the point where I went outside to play tennis”.
1578 “Sorry, which two paragraphs?”
Reply “Well the bit about the, erm”.
1578 “So those two paragraphs”.
Reply “The chap on holiday, you know, feeling, erm, you know, awkward, taking a photograph of his daughter”.
1578 “Yes, they want to be slipped in?”
Reply “They need to go at the end of ‘I went outside to watch Jane play tennis’ full-stop, because everything else is at lunchtime, this was actually before lunchtime. I think the wording here is a bit, is a bit, erm”.
1578 “In between ‘play tennis’ and ‘I believe I saw Madeleine at lunchtime’?”
Reply “Yeah, yeah, so that’s coming, ‘I saw Madeleine at lunchtime’ and ‘Me or Jane collected El*from the Ocean Club’ will be a kind of, a later paragraph. No, this is wrong. Erm”.
00.54.54 1578 “Just bear with me a moment please”.
Reply “I mean, the essence of it is right, but, but the”.
1578 “So we now go to?”
Reply “’I recall’, I mean, it’s a bit, it doesn’t need the ‘I recall’. ‘After’, it’s actually ‘After Jane’”.
1578 “Are these the two paragraphs that we want to?”
Reply “That we’ll be moving to, at the end of that (inaudible)?”
1578 “Yes”.
Reply “It’s actually going to be ‘After Jane’s tennis lesson’. Erm, you can actually delete ‘Madeleine was playing tennis’ at all, because, erm, it wasn’t Madeleine, Madeleine and E**a had done this the day before, erm”.
1578 “Okay. So I shall take out ‘I recall that Jane was having a tennis lesson’?”
Reply “It’s just ‘After Jane’s tennis lesson’”. And then you can actually delete ‘Madeleine was playing tennis, they were having a lesson’, because that, well it wasn’t Madeleine that day at all. Erm, it says ‘After Jane’s tennis lesson’, I’ll try and preserve it as much as possible, ‘I recall that one of the guests’, erm, ‘a man from Southampton came up’ full-stop. ‘His daughter’, it was his three year old daughter, ‘his young daughter was having a’, this, it may be word perfect, ‘was having a’, erm”.
1578 “We have got ‘His daughter was playing tennis’?”
Reply “Well, yeah, his, his daughter was having a tennis lesson, you know, a kid’s tennis lesson, I mean, she was only, she was probably the same age as E and E, they were in the same, they were all at the same clubs but they had, there were, there were a certain number of children so they had them in two groups, so they didn’t always do the same thing, you know, Beavers and the Lobsters or something. Erm, and, yeah, she was having a, a sort of, well kind of a kiddies tennis lesson”.
00.56.50 1578 “Yes”.

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00.55.54 Reply “Well we, me and Matt had gone down to the beach to go on, as I say, Matt’s a good, quite a good sailor and we took one of the, the, erm, the catamarans out. So we’d gone down, erm, just after lunch, probably after the kids had gone back to the Kids Club, so two, two o’clock, two or three o’clock, and had quite a long sail, erm, we were out for a long time, Matt sailed for a bit and then I sailed for a bit and he kind of gave me a bit of a lesson really. Erm, as I said, he, he got bounced overboard and the kind of wire snapped and I had to learn quite quickly how to turn a catamaran round and not run someone over in the water with it. So we pick, you know, we picked him back up, erm, a boat came back out and repaired, you know, kind of repaired the, the bit that had snapped, erm, it was the harness. And then we came back to the shore and by the time we got back to the shore, and I think we’d noticed for some time before that the, a lot of the others had congregated down on the beach and were down by the, by the waterfront, pretty much at the end of the, the boardwalk from the Paradiso Restaurant. So me and Matt got, dropped the boat off, came over, erm, lots of general laughter about Matt’s near death experience and, erm, I trying to, you know, play up the glory as much as possible of course. Erm, the kids were playing there, erm, this was, I would imagine would be, you know, quarter past four, half four time, erm, when we probably finished sailing

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Reply “Erm it varied day to day, we’d certainly see them erm a number of times each day, err generally, we probably didn’t see them at breakfast time, they were, I say they, they played more tennis than sort of down at the water front I don’t think they did an awful lot down on the water front at all, so erm Jane probably saw slightly more of, of, of, of Kate and Gerry because she did a bit more tennis than me. We, we’d see the children and them often at lunch time on a number of days, we had joint lunches in one or other of the, of the rooms, erm that didn’t necessarily happen every day, high tea we would always see all the children and all the adults together when they were served, they were served their dinner, erm think it was about five or about quarter past five, something like that, err so at least three or four times a day, I mean we, people did do their own thing you know during the week as well and then obviously every, every evening, err we were, you know we, we all kind of congregated together”.
1578 “Yes. How often do you see their children, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie”?
Reply “Erm well it would have been on most of the occasions bar the, bar the evening for those, err and sometimes we may have bumped in, you know may have seen Madeleine when I was picking up E**a from you know, from the, you know the, the kids club in the afternoon, or doing the drop off, so I might see them even independently from, from Kate and Gerry if I dropped off a bit later, or picked up a bit later, so, several, several times, you know usually several times a day”.

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00.50.49 1578 “When was the last time you saw Madeleine”?
Reply “Erm I certainly think I saw her at lunch time on the Thursday, erm when, when sort of E**a, when E**a and her would have come out the, the, the, the, the kids club, as I said earlier on, on, on Thursday afternoon, we did something slightly different and we were all down at, down at the beach front and were gonna eat there, my gut feeling is because I got there to pick E**a up before all of the children from the kids club were taken up to the, the Tapas that I did see Madeleine there, I have to say eleven months on, I, I can’t tell you that I had a picture of her definitely there, but unless Kate and Gerry picked her up separately, she, she would have been there and somewhere in the back of my mind I, I’ve got this picture of me taking E**a out and all the other children, including Madeleine were there but it’s too long after to, to, to really be honest on that and sort of say yes I definitely saw her, cos I, I don’t know I can now”.

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Did you get inside the holiday apartment?”
01:09:17 Reply "I’d been in, I’d been in their apartment twice, I think before, I don’t know on tape at least, but err I went, I did a visual check of the children on the Sunday night, entered through the patio door so I’d been in through that part of the door err that part of the building. Err I think until, actually until the night itself I don’t think I’d actually gone into their apartment again, err if there were lunches and things like that they were generally done in, in one of the other apartments, particularly Kate and, err Dave and Fi’s because it was so much bigger.

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Monday 30th April 2007 I recall I may have done some windsurfing this was just after I'd dropped E*** off at the kids club near the Ocean Club and E*** at crèche near to the Tapas bar. I may have done some shopping but I really can't be certain, I recall Jane, Kate and Gerry playing tennis. We didn't eat out at lunchtime we generally ate with Rachael and Matt and this was in our apartment or theirs, as well as at David and Fiona's. After Madeleine disappeared we all began eating lunch at Dave and Fiona's apartment.

I think in the afternoon I may have been out with Matt, I had wanted to spend time as a family but E*** wanted to go to the kids club. Monday to Wednesday I can say that the days were all very similar and it is difficult to distinguish one from each other. I know that on one of the evenings either Monday or Tuesday I stayed in the flat with E*** as she wasn't well Jane brought my meals over to me this was mentioned in my first statement. I feel that this is more likely to have been Monday as I feel that we were all together as a group on Tuesday- nine adults. I believe that this was when the Trivia quiz had taken place.

I recall going for a sailing lesson on Tuesday and Jane went to play tennis, we collected the kids as usual around lunchtime, Kate and Gerry had lunch in their apartment as they did on most days. I went out in the afternoon to the beach I was with Matt and as far as I can recall we went out kayaking. The children were in bed as usual 19:30-20:00 they appeared to be well asleep and checked that they were prior to leaving the days were generally uneventful up until Thursday 3rd May 2007.

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I went to the flat with E***, whilst she was resting I read a book. When she woke up we went outside to watch Jane play tennis I saw Madeleine at lunchtime I can't recall if Jane or I collected E*** it's all a bit hazy now.

I recall that Jane had been having a tennis lesson also there was Kate and Rachael. We were watching some children have their lesson this was before lunch. I recall that one of the guests a guy from Southampton came over his daughter was playing tennis, he wanted to take a picture but expressed to us how uncomfortable he felt in doing so- he said something similar to feeling like a pervert or a dirty old man when taking a picture of his own child, I do not wish to implicate him. I recall that the child was of a similar age to Madeleine and E***.

I recall that Madeleine and E**a had had a similar lesson the day before.

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David Payne

01:01:02 1485 "Okay. I understand that your apartment was like the meeting place.”
Reply "Yes.”
1485 "Can you recall that?”
Reply "Yes, definitely. Err you know, I, I, it just happened you know the way it happened you know people just gravitated up to err to our room err you know it’s, I suppose some part we’d got Dianne there who is fantastic at you know helping, you know it’s a free set of hands whereas you know Russ and Jane obviously they’ve got two, and we’ve got two and so you know it was good that we’ve got someone extra to help out while you know someone’s preparing the food, keep an eye on the children, err so often you know we would, you know we’d con, congregate there at lunch time and quite often if I remember Matt and Rachael would bring G***e along and you know we’d eat there together. Err a lot of the time we didn’t tend to see you know Kate and Gerry you know it was more Russell and Jane primarily I remember, and sometimes Matt and Rachael and G***e but generally err Kate and Gerry would do their own thing err you know during the day, so that’s, but they you know they would still come up you know from time to time. So it was well used at the, that first floor.”
01:02:26 1485 "Was it, I notice you say that you didn’t see much of Kate and Gerry and you that sparsely see Russell and, was it something that you discussed before the holiday that you was gonna all do your own thing in the day then just meet up for night time?”

---

Reply "Err no, no it was just one of these things that you know naturally happened err I think the children, you do whatever is the easiest and you know you fall into a pattern and it just seemed, you know whenever you wanted to put your kids down or whenever they were tired or you know as I say ours slept in the afternoon but I’m, you know for example I know that Sean and Amelie didn’t you know tend to have sleeps err you know and Madeleine, during the day. So you know they, yeah their time was pretty occupied right from first thing in the morning till…”

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1485 "Alright, what I now want you to concentrate on David is the important day really, Thursday the third of May. I want you to try and put yourself back in to that, it may help you if you think of the time when the alarm was raised, that may well bring you back to the beginning of the day and try and remember as much as you can, the time you got up, I know that you said on the first interviews that you couldn’t remember an awful lot but try as best you can to remember from say midday onwards.”
00:01:48 Reply "Mm yeah, err on that particular day err me and Fiona had you know gone down to the beach, we err took the dinghies out err as usual we went, you know we had the kids, err we had lunch err in the apartment. Err that afternoon I wanted to go down err to the Ocean, err to the beach and err you know windsurf err Matt and Russell had gone down there, they were, had taken the catamaran out. So I went down there err while Fiona and Dianne were looking after the girls in our apartment. Err I was down err windsurfing, I must have been windsurfing for a couple of hours, err saw Matt and Russ out on err the catamaran

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FIONA PAYNE

, and we were the only ones that had, had booked to have a two bedroomed apartment. Erm, I think Matt and, erm, Russ and Jane had only booked a one bedroomed one but they actually did get a two bedroomed one. So whether that was because of, you know, and that made us one floor up, I don’t know. So we had a balcony and we had a slightly bigger apartment. Erm, because of that our apartment seemed to be the meeting point for lunchtimes and things like that, just because it was bigger and had a view, a better view than the others.

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 All the kids were booked into their relevant kids clubs, erm, Scarlet was the only one that was in the baby crèche and that was kind of next door to where Madeleine and E**a were in the sort of older kids club and that was near the main reception. So after lunch I generally, after breakfast, sorry, I generally walked with Scarlet to the baby club, erm, with or without either Jane, Russell, Kate, erm, I’d sometimes meet Kate or Gerry dropping Madeleine off there, erm, and then Dave would take L*** over to the kids club which was back near the, behind the Tapas Bar area”.

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 Erm, so everybody had their own thing for the morning really. And then, erm, come lunchtime we’d pick them up, pick the kids up and meet back at the, at our apartment and, generally, I think, every day, we fed the kids in our apartment and usually Matt and Rachael came, would come up and Russ and Jane were there and the kids and usually Kate and Gerry had theirs in their apartment, mainly because their, they just found it easier”.


1485
“Yeah”.


Reply
“Erm, with the three of theirs. Erm, I’m trying to think if they came up earlier on in the week, I don’t, I think they might have, might have had the odd lunch, but, on the whole, they’d sort of, they did their own thing at lunchtime. I think for us we were, all our children were still having sort of afternoon sleeps, erm, so we’d stay at the apartment after lunch, get the kids down and just sit on the balcony and read while the kids had a nap and then, erm, when they got up we’d, you know, go for a walk to the beach or play by the pool, but they just went to the kiddie care for the morning only (inaudible). Erm, so, yeah, the kids teatime, I think that was around, it was quite early, half four I think, five o’clock, erm, that was another sort of meeting point of the day really, where the crèche would organise the tea and that was sort of outside the Tapas area, erm, and generally all of us would meet for that, all the kids had tea together. Erm, and usually after they’d had tea, we’d just have another bit of run around with them in the play area, there was a sort of children’s playground just by the Tapas Bar

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Yeah, I think the Sunday, the first day, we did go out on the wind surfers and sort of battled through it a bit, but we were cold and they didn’t have full length wetsuits, I remember I actually wanted to come in, because I was absolutely freezing, erm, a bit before the end, because I think it ended at half eleven, eleven, half eleven. Again, the times of this have just dimmed with, with the period of time that’s passed, erm, and it all sort of depends on when the crèche finishes. I suppose that will all be known anyway. But, we, we generally tried to get out of the water half an hour before the crèche was due to finish and then we’d just get dried and then obviously go and pick them up. So I think that first Sunday we, we came out a bit earlier than we, later on in the week, would have, because we were cold, and just sort of dried off and sat there, but, and then would have gone to pick the kids up, again, I’d generally go and get Scarlet and Dave would then go and get L***”.


1485
“Uh hu”.


Reply
“Erm, and I think it finished at half eleven or twelve, that sort of time. Erm, yeah, so that, that Sunday was slightly different to the others, I think”.

00.45.41
1485
“What would you do after eleven then?”


Reply
“Just, as I said, we’d just dry off, get the wetsuits washed and put away”.


1485
“Pick the kids up?”


Reply
“Pick the kids up”.


1485
“And then do what?”


Reply
“And then go straight back to the apartment, erm, for lunch, we’d feed the kids there”.


1485
“Did anybody else on that day, the first day, come to”.


Reply
“On the Sunday”.


1485
“Come to your apartment for lunch?”


Reply
“Erm, I’m sure they did, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think every, I think every lunch, bar the Thursday, we had people in the apartment having lunch. Erm, and my mum generally was the sandwich maker, that was a bit of a joke for the week, she’d took it upon herself to do loads of shopping, erm, while we were sort of sailing and stuff, she, she’d go to the Supermarket and get loads of, loads of provisions in and she’d be making piles of baguettes and, erm, yeah, and everyone would generally descend on ours and demolish the lot. Erm, and, yeah, we just all mucked in to cook for the kids, we generally tried to give them a hot, a hot lunch and, you know, people would just donate whatever was in their apartment”.


1485
“Yeah”.


Reply
“So, yeah, I don’t think Sunday was any different in that regard, you know, we ate at ours”.

---

1485
“The second full day, yeah”.


Reply
“Erm, again, I think that was a sailing day, erm, so we went along, there was one other chap, I think there was just me, Dave and one other chap for the sailing lesson. So we went straight, straight down to the beach after dropping the kids off. Again, I think we had a full morning, we had a really good, good morning, erm, just pottering about in the, in the boats. And, again, it was pretty cold I think that day and, again, we just had the short wetsuits on, but, erm, and I think we eventually asked to be, to come back in (laughs). Erm, but we would have waited, I think even if we’d come in a bit earlier, we generally waited until it was time to pick the kids up before leaving the beach, we didn’t do anything else with the morning it was all on the beach”.


1485
“Okay. And you would leave the beach and go back to pick up?”


Reply
“Yeah, I’d go back, get Scarlet, Dave would go back and get L*** and we’d meet back at the apartment”.


1485
“The kids having afternoon?”


Reply
“The kids would have their lunch, you know”.

01.14.18
1485
“What about, again, visitors?”


Reply
“Tut, again, I, I’m ninety-nine percent sure, erm, everybody, bar Kate and Gerry and the children, had come for lunch”.


1485
“Anything unusual or anything that you can recall specific about anything said or any actions from anybody?”


Reply
“No, erm, I mean, everyone was having a good time, you know, everyone was enjoying what they’d been doing, there was, you know, a definite feeling of, huh, you know, people relaxing a bit, you know, it was the first time, certainly for Dave and I, we’d had any time doing any, erm, sort of adult stuff or, you know, sports on our own since we’ve had our two children”.


1485
“Uh hu”.


Reply
“You know, people were enjoying themselves and getting, you know, we didn’t see a lot of Kate and Gerry, I know they, you know, apart from the evenings, they were having a great time with the tennis lessons and, yeah, there was, as I say, a genuine feeling everybody was just relaxing into it and having a nice time and the kids were having a whale of a time, they were just loving being altogether and, you know, we always had them, they had their own lunch round the table and, you know, they were, they were just all getting on very well and having a good time”.

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“Erm, and I think why I’m thinking that is, I know Kate and Gerry did go to the beach, I think they tried to have lunch on the beach with the kids on one of the previous days and we didn’t, you know, and that’s maybe why I’m getting confused”.


1485
“Are you able to say what day that was that you think?”


Reply
“Again, I couldn’t tell you. We didn’t really see Kate and Gerry for any lunchtimes, but I know one of those, I remember Kate saying it was a bit of a disaster, because Sean put his feet on the sand and didn’t like it and it was cold and windy and it was all a bit of a disaster, so they didn’t do it again. Erm, tut, yeah, so, you know, I am backtracking, but I think Thursday was the first day that we went down after the sleep time”.

00.03.35
1485
“Right. Is it fair to say that, I mean, you mentioned earlier on in the interview that you didn’t, the only time you really saw Kate and Gerry was at the Tapas?”


Reply
“Umm”.


1485
“Is it fair to say that that is”.


Reply
“We saw them round and about during the day, erm, you know like in the afternoon, when I’m saying when our kids were asleep. I remember one afternoon I wandered down to the pool, erm, you know, while Dave and mum were up in the apartment, and sat and had a diet Coke by the pool with them, they’d just finished a tennis lesson, you know. So things like that, in passing, but we didn’t really do any activities altogether”.


1485
“Yeah”.


Reply
“Erm, as I say, they were very much having their tennis lessons during the day and it was just, you know, we saw them. And, you know, so I didn’t see much of them, erm, until the evening”.


1485
“Did you see Madeleine and the twins during the day up until Thursday?”


Reply
“Not, not very often. Erm, I mean, the twins probably a bit more, just because picking, you know, picking L*** up at lunchtime or whatever, erm, they’d be picking the twins up. And then at high tea we’d see the kids altogether, that was really the only kiddie time, when they were all together and with Madeleine and the twins. Erm, and then after, after teatime when they’d all play. But that, that was the main part of the day where we saw, erm, Kate and Gerry and, and, you know, the children, their children”.

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