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| Title: Kate's lost 7 Hours | |
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TinLizzy
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Date Posted：07/14/2011 9:58 PMCopy HTML DAILY EXPRESS (Deleted) ’MCCANNS ARE LYING’ 24th September Madeleine McCann Monday September 24,2007 By David Pilditch and Martin Evans in Praia da Luz Portuguese police believe Gerry and Kate McCann are using friends to hide their role in killing Madeleine.The Daily Express can reveal that their seven holiday friends may now be named as suspects as police believe they are hiding the truth about Madeleine’s death.The dramatic move comes as it was reported that former chief suspect Robert Murat is to be told he will not face charges over the four-year-old’s disappearance. Ruling him out of the four-month investigation will leave Kate and Gerry McCann as the sole suspects. Last night police sources said the decision could have a devastating impact on the McCanns’ defence. In an astonishing twist, British expat Murat could be used as a key prosecution witness against the McCanns. Almost the entire police case against Murat was built on evidence from the couple’s holiday friends. Investigators believe the McCanns “cooked up a story” that Madeleine had been kidnapped to throw them off the trail and enlisted members of their party to provide them with an alibi. They also believe the group tried to turn the focus of the investigation towards Murat. Yesterday it was revealed that police are questioning new witnesses who cast doubts over the evidence of members of the holiday group.The McCanns and their friends told how they took turns to check on their children every 30 minutes as they ate at a tapas restaurant on May 3, the night Madeleine vanished. But one Portuguese newspaper reported that employees at the restaurant insisted that only Dr Russell O’Brien, 36, and hospital consultant Matthew Oldfield, 37, left the dinner table that evening. Another witness has come forward to refute the testimony of a third friend Jane Tanner, 36, who told police she saw a man carrying a child rushing from the Ocean Club complex at around 9.15pm on May 3. Yesterday it was reported in Portugal that a new witness, an unnamed Irishman, told police he was in the same spot as Miss Tanner at the same time and saw no one. He is the second independent witness to dispute her story and police sources said they viewed Miss Tanner’s evidence as “unreliable” because of inconsistencies. Officers are concerned that she apparently changed her version of the sighting.She originally claimed she saw the suspect rushing towards the Baptista supermarket in Praia da Luz. She told police the child was wrapped in a blanket. A second independent witness reported seeing a similar man with a child in a blanket near the town’s church heading towards the beach. The route he took matches the alleged trail of death discovered by British sniffer dogs who detected the scent of a corpse. But Miss Tanner has now told detectives that the man was heading in a different direction – towards Murat’s home. Police regard her account as one of a series given by the McCanns and their friends to convince them that Madeleine had been kidnapped. Officers believe former hospital anaesthetist Kate, 39, killed her daughter by accidentally giving her an overdose of sleeping pills. They are working on the theory that consultant cardiologist Gerry, also 39, helped to dispose of Madeleine’s body. Police are awaiting results of toxicology tests carried out on bodily fluids with an 88 per cent match to Madeleine’s DNA found in the boot of a hire car the couple rented 25 days after she went missing. Dr O’Brien, along with Mr Oldfield’s wife Rachael, 36, and another friend Dr Fiona Payne, 34, said they saw Murat near the McCanns’ apartment on May 3 and their claim appeared to shatter Murat’s alibi.Detectives interrogated the McCanns at police headquarters in Portimao 17 days ago over the discrepancies. The couple were told separately later that day they were being named as suspects or arguidos. Last night another member of the McCanns’ holiday party was reported to have stepped into the mystery. The move came after it was revealed that police in Portugal were focusing their investigation on a “lost seven hours” on the day Madeleine disappeared.Now Dr Payne’s husband – medical researcher David, 41 – has claimed he saw Madeleine being put to bed when he visited the McCann flat at 7pm. Before his new testimony, police sources admitted they could not confirm the whereabouts of Kate and Madeleine after 1.29pm that day. Kate’s movements were said to be unaccounted for until she sat down to have dinner with Gerry and their friends at around 8.40pm. But the McCanns believe Mr Payne’s testimony will be crucial in proving their innocence. That would leave just an hour and a half in which they were supposed to have killed their daughter and disposed of her body. But last night a source in Portugal said police were viewing alibis provided by the McCanns’ friends with suspicion. They are convinced that some or all of them may have known what happened to Madeleine and may have helped to cover up her death. The source said police had not ruled out the possibility of naming them all as suspects – and they could face being charged as accessories. The source said: “It has long been considered a number of people may have been involved in this unfortunate case.”In Portugal yesterday it was revealed that detectives have seized a British police manual from the McCanns.Officers believe the book could be used as a key piece of evidence in building a case against them.A Portuguese police source said: “It is certainly not the sort of reading material you would expect a couple to take on a relaxing family holiday".
6pm JT may 4 Russell O'Brien, Matthew Oldfield and David Payne left the beach (7) a little earlier to go to the tennis court for men's tennis night. When the group came back from the beach (7) at around 6.20pm, they went past the tennis court and they saw all the men, including Gerald McCann, on the court. (8) They stayed to talk to them for around 20 to 30 minutes. Gerald McCann behaved normally. The interviewee supposed that Kate was at the apartment (1) putting the children to bed. Around 7pm, they went to their own apartments (1) with the children. The interviewee bathed her two daughters, read them a story to send them to sleep. As **** was unwell and had difficulty going to sleep, she stayed with her father who, meantime, had returned. The interviewee went to dinner at the, "Tapas," restaurant at around 8.30pm. Matt Oldfield's statement of 10th May regarding 3rd May About 18h00 he, ROB and DP went to a social men's tennis match, held in the above resort area, where they remained until about 19h00. He clarifies that when they arrived at that meeting GM was already there, with KM and her children watching the match, the rest of the women and children joining them [KM and children] later. GERRY That they bathed the children, the deponent having left at 18H00 for a tennis game only for men, at which were: DAN, tennis instructor; JULIAN, with whom he had played tennis several times; and CURTIS, with whom he had also played. KATE At the flat they both bathed the children, and close to 6:00PM Gerry went to the tennis courts, soon after the children had finished their bath. They entered the apartment by the main door, with the key. She does not know if it was locked, and presumes it was Gerry who opened it. At lunch time they also entered by the same door. Gerry During the afternoon of that day the rest of the group members, including the children, were at the beach, [they] having returned at 18H30, the time at which he saw DP next to the tennis court. KATE After the children’s bath, already alone, she put pijamas and nappies on the twins, gave them each a glass of milk and biscuits. Before bathing the children and because it was early, they had thought of taking them to the recreation area, but then decided against this because of tiredness. While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes. After showering, at around 6:30/6:40PM and while she was getting dry, she heard somebody knocking at the verandah door. She wrapped herself in a towel and went to see who it was. This door was closed but not locked as Gerry had left by this door. She confirmed it was David Payne, because he called out and had opened the door slightly. David’s visit was to help her to take the children to the recreation area. When David returned from the beach he was with Gerry at the tennis courts, and it was Gerry who asked him to help Kate with taking the children to the recreation area, which had been arranged but did not take place. David was at the apartment for around 30 seconds, he didn’t actually enter the flat, he remained at the verandah door. According to her he then left for the tennis courts where Gerry was. The time was around 6:30-6:40PM. jThursday night was actually the men’s night of tennis normally it started at half six but we’d asked ‘Could the social tennis start at six��? so that they then gave us time to get the kids into bed afterwards��? j remember saying to Russell and Matt and everything, it was about quarter past six, I said ‘Oh you’ve got to go to the men’s night tennis because they’ve changed the times for us and now you’re not blo*dy going��? you know, that sort of, it was that sort of thing. So I think at about quarter past six they, they all went up to, erm, to the men’s tennis��? j we followed up probably about quarter of an hour later with all the kids and we went to the play area by the tennis courts and had a, you know, we probably stayed there for about half an hour or so jGerry was there, he was playing, he was playing tennis��? ROB around the six o’clock mark we were, we were having such a good time down there we were, we were half tempted to, for the men not to go back to what was planned up at the Tapas, erm, namely a sort of men’s social tennis round, you know, which I think was due to start at six. And I think as it got around six we thought it’s not really fair, you know, three of us not going there, there might not be enough players, you know, there wasn’t a full resort, so me, Matt and Dave, erm, left everybody else down at the beach and headed back up to the, to the, erm, the apartments, well to the Tapas anyway DP - Err after we had the meal we got some ice cream and then err we decided that we were gonna go up and play tennis so I left err with err Russell, we left the, err the girls at the restaurant and we went up to the, err back up to the Ocean Club. Err I, as I say I’m not sure you know what happened to Matt and Russell at that particular moment but I remember then you know I went over to see err Gerry at the err you know tennis courts, just to see you know what was happening, and err decided that we’d, you know I’d come, come back to play tennis and err Gerry had asked me just to pop in and check everything was alright err with Kate or you know again I can’t remember the exact reason whether he was just making sure it was alright that he could stay there and you know more time but you know he’d asked me to pop in. So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry’s apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we’ve looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we’ve got that I was you know going to Kate’s about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it’s a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they’ve had such a great time, they’re really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can’t remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn’t there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who’d had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he’d, he’d played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, FP - then I remember it getting to tennis time, because it was men’s tennis that night and the men had all rearranged the time to suit us and it was getting towards six o’clock and, you know, they were going to be late, so I remember saying ‘Look, you better go because it’s not fair, you’ve moved the time then you’ll be late’. Erm, so I think that, that was sort of approaching five to six. And we were toying with the idea of getting the kids ice creams for pudding and then thought oh we probably don’t have time, but then we decided well, you know, why don’t you go off and go to your tennis and we’ll just give them their ice cream and follow on. And so I think they left probably about, you know, that being Matt and Dave and Russell, around five to six, six o’clock time. And the, you know, the wives stayed behind with the kids, they had ice cream and then we followed on about ten past six and we just walked back up to, to watch them play a bit of tennis and give the kids, you know, a little playtime. Erm, and I don’t think we stayed there that long that night because the kids were pretty, pretty tired. I don’t know who was playing who, but there was certainly Gerry, Matt, erm, you know, Russ and Dave, erm, and typically being men, it was all quite competitive and, erm, and far different to the women’s tennis. Erm, Kate and the kids, I think, as I said earlier, weren’t there and, you know, they, as Gerry said, were just absolutely knackered and Kate was getting them bathed and ready for bed. it wasn’t a surprise that they weren’t there. Erm, and I know Dave had said to me later, because he, erm, after tennis he’d said he’d checked on Kate and the kids before going to tennis”. “How did that come into your conversation?” Reply “Because he was saying how angelic they all looked and he said to Kate when we all sat down at the Tapas table as well and he was sort of joking how they looked like perfect children, because they were all sat there, all clean in their pyjamas, having a story”. 1485 “Yeah. But when did he, specifically, when did he tell you?” Reply “I think it was when we were getting the kids ready for bed and we were back in our apartment”. MO - So we finished and set off, probably about twenty past six, sometime around there, because it was after when we’d got them to move, we were already late, so I think if we’d said, if they’d move it to six thirty and we’re setting off at six twenty, I would have been happy that we could have made it there in time, but we’d already gone past the time when I thought we won’t be able to go because we were already so late”. 00.07.20 4078 “Was that you, David and”. Reply “Russell”. 4078 “Russell”. Reply “It was men’s social. Erm, so we went back up, erm, back to, well I went back to the apartment, got the tennis gear and back onto the courts or back to the courts area, erm, and the other guys went to get their stuff. Erm, and I think Dave said that he’d been to the apartment, but I don’t know that for definite, that’s just something I think has come out, I didn’t know anything about that. So we went, got our stuff and came back to the courts, which were already in play, because the social had already started. And Gerry was down playing on a court, I think there was only three of them, I think the, erm, the coach, whose name I can’t remember, the tennis coach, the blonde haired bloke, erm, was playing to make up the numbers. And so we waited and watched for a little while, so we didn’t get on court until, phew, sometime closer to seven, DP - So where were you going then? Presumably you weren’t going to play tennis were you? When you left the beach, what was…” Reply "Yeah, oh yes that was always the intention and that’s what Fiona was saying, look if you’re actually gonna do anything tonight you’d better get yourselves up there and it’s getting quite late so that was, you know, that’s the reason we’d all gone ahead because we waited till the children had finished eating and err got in the prams and got up there, you know it takes another five ten minutes on top walking back with them, err then you know we’d have lost the opportunity. Err again, presuming that you know the tennis was usually around six thirty, that if you know, if we’re leaving the restaurant you know, quarter past six or whatever, around that time, that you know if we’d leave it much longer with it taking ten minutes or whatever to walk up just to start the tennis at half six, you know we were already cutting it fine and I think as it transpired we were playing tennis till you know even beyond there, it was quarter to seven, or around then and err you know if we’d have left it much later then we just thought well it’s gonna finish, so.” 00:33:29 1485 "Right, were you going for a lesson or were you actually going to play?” Reply "We were gonna play, there was obviously me, Matt and Russ, and Gerry was making up the four, fourth err person.” 1485 "But he was already playing?” Reply "Yeah he’d already been playing and that’s partly the reason that he kind of like threw in the towel early and said ah you know I’ve had, enough’s enough, I’ve had a good day and err but then we managed to get Dan, the pro, just to play a bit with us err you know so that made up the four ball err just for a little while.” 1485 "So your four…” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "Was yourself, Matt, Russell and…” Reply "Well it started off with Gerry and we had a bit with him and then Dan played a bit.” 1485 "And Dan, Dan replaced Gerry then did he?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "How far through the game was that?” Reply "I can’t remember.” 1485 "Sets wise?” Reply "Err you know whether we played one, you know again this is just, yeah usually we’d play a set and then change over so most likely it would be Gerry played a set and then left, that was most likely how it happened.” 1485 "Okay, and it was at what point that Gerry said to you go and, would you mind checking at Kate?” Reply "Well I mean coming back from the beach I’d got no equipment to play tennis you know, etcetera, so I had to go back to my room to you know change into stuff appropriate for playing tennis in, and err so he knew that I’d walk up that by and past so he said oh why don’t you err, you know can you just pop in on the way, the way up, so it was on the way back from me picking the stuff up.” 1485 "Right, so you’ve walked past, you’ve walked past Gerry’s apartment to get to yours.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "Got changed?” Reply "No, you know it was, again whether it was, in my mind it was on the way up that I’d popped in to Kate but it could have been on the way back, again, I’m sorry.” 1485 "No, it’s okay.” Reply "For my vagueness.” 00:35:21 1485 "But either way you’d have had to walk past because you go the roadside don’t you?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "So you’d have had to walk past Gerry’s…” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "Front door twice wouldn’t you?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "Is that right?” Reply "So, the reason why I think it was more likely that I did it on the way there was because I’ve called in through the err patio, it kind of made more sense that I’d have walked in through the gate and then up through the you know where the sliding doors are to say I’m here, rather than going up to my apartment, coming back down, coming past the apartment and then coming in the sliding doors.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "Because what I would have done is I’d have got changed and gone downstairs and then knocked on the front door because that, you know that would have made more sense rather than going all the way round and…” 1485 "Yeah, course.” Reply "So that’s in my mind why it makes more sense that it was, that that was on the way up.” 1485 "Right, so how long did you spend in your apartment before, I know you, I appreciate that you can’t recall whether it’s going or coming.” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "The likelihood is that it’s on the way.” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "How long did you spend in your apartment?” 00:36:24 Reply "I mean again, we’ve you know, we’ve chatted about the timings and everything and you know looked at the photographs and you know, you know we were leaving about quarter past six from the err restaurant, we’d gotta walk up there, ten, fifteen minutes, conversation with Gerry, conversation with Kate, you know that’s another five, ten minutes on to your ten, fifteen minutes walk so you’re talking twenty five minutes, so that’s taken you to twenty five to, twenty to seven, well you know we were certainly playing tennis for a, you know the best part of an hour err so you know it couldn’t have been long that I was in the apartment, you know a matter of minutes.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "You know just to pick the kit up and, and then go back down really.” 1485 "Did you have your own racquet?” Reply "I didn’t, no, I was using the, err Mark Warner’s racquets.” 1485 "Mark Warner’s, okay. I just want to revisit the going and seeing Kate before we move on.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "Alright, and the reason why I’ve kept it separate is because I want you to just think now.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "And imagine, remember what you saw.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "Did you open the door, slid door? Or was it already open? Or…” Reply "Err I think it was already open, I think it was already open. Err you know, as I say, I walked up there, Kate was you know I say looking very relaxed and err I say a comment to her I said well crikey it’s early, early for them to be getting ready you know for bed, as I say she said ah no, I’ve had such a good, you know such a good day and afternoon err so you know, and Gerry’s just obviously finishing off playing tennis and err so you know hopefully try and get them down and as I say we were just, you know I, I know, it does sound bizarre but I just looked at the three of them and I couldn’t, you know they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate it was, you know I was, and you know they just looked such healthy children, err you know, there’s, there’s you know nothing that normally…” 1485 "Yeah.” 00:38:36 Reply "Triggers in my mind like that but it was just how well that they looked and err…” 1485 "Try to remember where in, where they were in the apartment. Err, I mean the, the time that I was there err you know all, all of them err all the children and Kate were in the, err as soon as you go through the patio doors err you know they were all in the immediate area you know in front of you, err that was the area that they generally, you know when I saw them, so I didn’t, no I didn’t go any further into the apartment, you know it was just a conversation that I like, you know walked into the, you know through the French doors, I went into the lounge err you know the open plan area and err you know just had a brief conversation, you know things started off by as I say, saying about the, how well they looked and you know, it’s early to get them ready for bed and then I said oh Gerry’s, you know just finished over there, we’re going over to play a bit of tennis, err I probably said is there any problems with that and she said ah no, no fine, you know carry on, and err you know perhaps a bit more of a conversation err but you know it, it wasn’t many minutes that I was, was there.” 1485 "Yeah.” 00:39:55 Reply "But err certainly enough time just to see, you know, certainly the apartment, there was nothing that was untoward, that was you know err the children all looked extremely happy, there was no, you know signs of any problems with err you know Kate, you know or indeed the relationship that Kate had got with any of the three children. None of the children had been told off, none of the children looked like they were you know in trouble for anything, you know they were err still all talking and playing around. Err so you know it was just a very err transient you know that I’d gone in there, but as I say it just struck me how well they all looked.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "And content I suppose is the other word to use.” 1485 "Did you actually go into the apartment?” Reply "I did.” 1485 "Or did you do the conversation from the door?” Reply "No, definitely was inside the apartment, you know whether it be two or three steps into the apartment or you know however many, but I was definitely in the apartment.” 00:41:00 1485 "Okay, so now what I’m gonna try and ask you to recollect, what everybody was wearing.” Reply "I’m afraid that is, you know I’m, I cannot recall at all. I know that’s, you’d think that’d be an obvious thing to remember, I cannot remember. As I say the, from the children point of view predominantly I can remember the, you know, white, but I couldn’t say exactly what they were wearing. Err…” 1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example?” Reply "I can’t, no.” 1485 "And did you actually set eyes on each individual child?” Reply "All three children I saw, yeah.” 1485 "And were they standing up? Sitting down?” Reply "Err they were generally standing up, yeah.” 1485 "Did they actually acknowledge you?” Reply "Err oh yeah, you know I’m very sure that if you’d have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they’d all say ah yeah, I popped in. You know I, you know I did know the children very well, we’d all you know, met up many times before err you know I, you know again I’d be playing with Madeleine you know in the, err the play area err you know during that week, you know lifting her up, twizzing her round and everything, I knew her that well, you know, to do that, and as I say err she’d definitely know who I was and certainly, as I say, just to reinforce that she looked very happy.” 1485 "Yeah. Was that the last time you saw Madeleine?” 00:42:39 Reply "It was.” 1485 "How many minutes, you said as a matter of minutes and then you went back and then you played tennis.” Reply "Mm.” 1485 "I’m gonna pin you down and ask you how long you think you were in there for. I know you say minutes.” Reply "In their apartment, it, it, I’d say three minutes, five maximum.” 1485 "Three to five?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "So then you step back out, did you leave the doors open or did you close them?” Reply "Err I couldn’t remember. You know, again, I’ve got the, in my mind that the doors were open when I went in and I probably would have just walked out back that way, you know, it still, I mean it’s still relatively nice outside, it was light and everything so err you know I, I, whether they kept the door open it’s just nice when it’s the end of the evening you know, sorry, you know the end of the afternoon, but if I’m perfectly honest the answer to that question is I can’t remember Okay. So then you went back and then you played, you played a game for about an hour?” Reply "Yeah.” 1485 "You think from seven, from about seven till about eight?” Reply "Yeah, I mean it must, I mean it was before, I mean we got back before eight o’ clock err you know so perhaps just before seven, err sorry, err yeah just before seven so it was just before eight o’ clock. As I say when I got back I think I was cutting it fine and Fiona was still keen to go for a run and we started to get everyone ready for bed.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "And err so it was, as I say, about an hour but certainly we’d finished before eight o’ clock.” 00:44:18 1485 "Okay, and when you finished, I’m just trying to put this in order here, when you actually, when you finished and you went back to the apartment, did you say anything to Gerry about, about the fact that his family were fine? Or…” Reply "Yeah, err yeah, I haven’t mentioned this before, but yes, yeah I’d certainly, when we met up I said oh yeah, you know everything’s fine there, you know probably along the lines of you know you’ve got a bit more of a free pass you know you can carry on for a bit longer, Kate’s fine without everyone you know all the children are, are happy, there’s no difficulties with bath time or anything so you know, without actually saying all that just conveying to him that you know I don’t think you need to err rush back, you’ve got a free pass for a bit longer.” 1485 "Alright.” Reply "Err yeah.” 1485 "So was that as soon as you got back to the, to the tennis courts?” Reply "Yeah that would have been when we got back.” 1485 "When you got back to the tennis courts as opposed to at the end of the tennis session.” Reply "Yeah, yeah, yeah.” 1485 "Okay, and was he fine with that?” Reply "Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, again, you know it’s difficult with cameras and everything, you don’t want to sound (inaudible) or anything, but you know he’s a very sorted person, a very caring person and that’s the kind of thing, you know he’s very organised.” 1485 "Yeah.” Reply "And you know he will make sure everything’s fine and sorted before you know the, the, he’d carry on and do something for his own benefit if you like. So you know he was certainly one to, he would have wanted to know before you know continuing.” 00:45:45 1485 "Okay. We’ve talked, you’ve talked about you know, you’ve gone back and you’ve got ready and Fiona’s gone for a run.” Err my recollection was that we were just got, you know we were round there, I thought we’d actually entered into the Tapas bar to just…” 1485 "Actually into the complex?” Reply "Just, just into the complex, but certainly we hadn’t made it yet to the swimming pool but it was just, just about there.” 1485 "Okay.” Reply "Err yeah.” 00:46:42 1485 "And what time do you think that was?” Reply "Err we were, we were just before nine, you know just before nine o’ clock err we yeah we went between quarter to and nine o’ clock.” 1485 "And then you sat down, after the comments of course that you…” Reply "Yes, yeah.” 1485 "Who was there when you got, when you got to the table?” Reply "Err well, as I say, Gerry was sat next to me, err on my left, and then there was this choice of where Dianne was gonna sit with err, err Matt and err Russell, so those people had to be there, Kate was obviously there, Fiona had walked down with, as well, and err and as for Rachael and Jane I, I cannot say a hundred percent that they were there.” 1485 "What was Gerry doing when you got there?” Reply "Err I, again my recollection is we sat down and I just started talking to him, but I’m not sure whether that is entirely correct, whether he was having a conversation with somebody else before and then you know I just started talking but my recollection we started, you know, not far after we’d sat down we just started talking and you know, and I say we were just saying, you know what we’d both done and what a fantastic day that we’d had err you know and I know beyond the call of this interview but you know I’d had a lot of stress you know with work and over the last few years and you know it’s, it’s you know two, two young children it’s not been a particularly easy time and you know and for me that was the first day in many, many a month that I’d really enjoyed it and then Gerry had reciprocated and said we also had one of the best days that we’d had in many, many a month. You know that is my recollection of the first thing that happened on that table, but just, whether its because it was such a positive conversation that we’d had, which override the fact that there was other things that had happened before I wouldn’t like to say but in my mind that was the first thing that had happened.” 1485 "Yeah. So did you notice that he got up to go and check Madeleine, or to check his children?” 00:49:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean I, you know I know the people who left the table but I couldn’t tell you what order they left in and I couldn’t tell you what the time is that they left. You know, people have chatted about it, you know we’ve read about it and I’m not prepared to say well I think this is what happened because I’m sure my view’s been tainted by, you know, what we’ve read and what we’ve seen.” -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7pm GM -Yesterday, after the daily routine, MADELEINE and the twins were put to bed in their respective beds, and he stresses put to bed, at 7.30 pm. The deponent and his wife remained in the apartment to relax and drink a glass of wine until 8.30 pm. After checking the children, the deponent and his wife and the adults went to the "Tapas" restaurant, around 50 metres away, where they had dinner together. KATE May 4 Yesterday, after the daily routine, Madeleine and the twins went into the bedroom and were put in their beds at around 7.30. The witness and her husband stayed in the apartment, relaxing, until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband. Just after 8.30pm, the witness and her husband, after checking on their children, joined the other adults of the group at the "Tapas" restaurant, about 50 metres away, where they had dinner. KATE After David left, Kate dressed and sat with the children, Madeleine on her lap. She was wearing a top, she doesn’t remember what colour it was, a green long-sleeved t-shirt, blue denim pants. Trainers (tennis shoes) and white socks. She read a story to the children in the living room, on the sofa in front of the door to the verandah, identified on the diagram with the letter D. At 7:00 PM Gerry arrived and entered via the verandah door. He sat on the sofa identified with letter E. Doesn’t know if the story was finished, but thinks she was sitting on the sofa. GERRY - DAVID went to visit KATE and the children and returned close to 19H00, trying to convince the deponent to continue to play tennis, to which [entreaty] he did not accede as he had already been plying for about an hour and had to go back to to his wife. Nevertheless, RUSSEL, DAVID and MATHEW stayed to play. At 19H00, he made his way to the apartment, finding KATE and the children playing on the sofa. About 10 to 15 minutes later, they took the children to the bedroom and they all sat on MADELEINE's bed to read a story. At 19H30, the twins were already in their respective cots and MADELEINE in the bed next to the bedroom door. He does not know if they were asleep but from the silence he presumed that they were. As it was still early he took a bath, he thinks that KATE had already had one, they talked a little and drank wine or beer. At 20H35, they left the apartment in the direction of the TAPAS. Before they left and because the children's bedroom door was ajar as always, he opened it a little more, listening from the outside and, as there was complete silence he did not enter, returning the door to its previous position, with a space of about 10cm. ----- He is certain that, before leaving home the children's bedroom was totally dark, with the window closed, but he does not know it was locked, the external blinds closed but with some slats open, and the curtains also drawn closed. Asked, he relates that during the night the artificial light coming in from the outside is very weak, because, without a light being on in the lounge or the kitchen, the visibility inside the bedroom is much reduced. Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE by the rear door which he consequently closed but did not lock given that that is only possible from the inside. Referring to the front door, while he is certain that it was closed it is unlikely that it was locked as [because] they had left by the rear door. ----- They took the usual route to the TAPAS, where they arrived a little after 20H35 after the daily routines, MADELEINE and the twins were put to bed in their respective beds at 7.30pm. The parents remained in the apartment to relax and drink a glass of wine until 8.30pm. KATE- After Gerry arrived the children went to wash their teeth and she then read them another story, this time all four of them sitting on Madeleine’s bed. She thinks that Gerry entered the room, but does not recall him sitting on the bed. During the story Madeleine was lying on the pillow, alert and paying attention to the story. After both twins kissed Madeleine, she thinks that Gerry was in the room, and each (Kate and Gerry) placed a twin in its crib at the same time, between Madeleine’s bed and the bed next to the window. They also kissed Madeleine, who was lying down. She was under the covers, she thinks because she was a bit cold. She normally clutched the soft toy and if she wasn’t holding it then it was next to her, on the left. She remained lying down on her left side, with the soft toy and a pink blanket, to cover her. The twins were laid down on their backs, covered with open weave blankets. She says that she doesn’t know if the children were in the same positions when they left the apartment. KATE - After the children’s bath, already alone, she put pijamas and nappies on the twins, gave them each a glass of milk and biscuits. Before bathing the children and because it was early, they had thought of taking them to the recreation area, but then decided against this because of tiredness. While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes. After showering, at around 6:30/6:40PM and while she was getting dry, she heard somebody knocking at the verandah door. She wrapped herself in a towel and went to see who it was. This door was closed but not locked as Gerry had left by this door. She confirmed it was David Payne, because he called out and had opened the door slightly. David’s visit was to help her to take the children to the recreation area. When David returned from the beach he was with Gerry at the tennis courts, and it was Gerry who asked him to help Kate with taking the children to the recreation area, which had been arranged but did not take place. David was at the apartment for around 30 seconds, he didn’t actually enter the flat, he remained at the verandah door. According to her he then left for the tennis courts where Gerry was. The time was around 6:30-6:40PM. JEZ - I left about 8:15 to 8:30 pm. I was pushing the pram around the complex and went to the toilet near the bar. I could not see inside the restaurant. As I got the baby to sleep, I was on my way back to the apartment. I came out at the top road. I left the apartment and turned right. I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner. At the next crossing, I turned right and continued on down the hill Jez - I met him near the stairs of a ground floor. There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment. We spoke for a few minutes. He said you’re on walking duty. I said I was staying in and pros and cons and what to do with the children. The conversation lasted for about three (3) to five (5) minutes JEZ - I assumed that he had gone to check on the children. I cannot affirm if I saw him exactly leaving the apartment through the passageway, and if he was heading towards the tapas Bar . Jez - I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. The conversation lasted for approximately three to five minutes. We spoke of the care of children and how they were getting along. He told me something like “he was on night duty”. The doorbell woke us up at about 1 am. It was the resort manager who I learnt to be John and one of Jerry’s friends. I think his name was Matt. He is white, slim, and tall with graying hair. From previous conversations I learnt him to be a diabetics specialist. We met him o the way to the destination. Matt said XXXXX to the effect that Jerry’s daughter had been abducted, and that Jerry said that he had met me and wanted to know if I had seen anything. I said “You’re joking”. I offered help but they said there was nothing that could be done at that stage. We remained at the apartment but could see people around the pool and at the front with torches. I also saw the police arriving. We then went to bed. I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15. I am aware of the importance of this hour and am also aware that the media announced our meeting time as 21h05. Even if this were correct, I have no idea from where such information originated. It is not possible to give you a more exact time. Gerry told me if he had stayed another week, he would likely do as I was doing and would stay with the children one night. It appeared as though he was jealous of what I was doing, but given that he was with a big group, he felt the obligation to meet with them every night, and the chosen location was the Tapas bar. I believe that there was some sort of agreement with the tapas Bar as they appeared to have a reservation every night and it was impossible for other guests to book at spot there. that the time I left it was dusk JEZ (Ref JT) I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group’s apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple. Jez - I last saw Jerry and Kate on Saturday, 5th May 2007 about 4 pm or 5 pm.We were sitting by the pool. I walked over to Jerry and wanted to let him know that I was thinking about him. I shook his hand. He was quiet but wasn’t crying. I thought it was brave of him and his wife to go t the pool. I said hello to Kate, I didn’t know what to say in that situation. She looked really upset. That was the last time I physically saw Jerry and Kate. JEZ - I do not have grand memories of Madeleine but did see her on some occasions with her parents in the crèche. My last memory of the twins, specifically, was in the company of adults (I think they were friends that travelled here) in the pool zone and also on the day that we left, JEZ - Saturday 5th of May, 2007. Saturday, 5th of May 2007. If was a very emotional encounter and I did not know what to say to them. I went over to Gerry and gave him a pat on the shoulder and spoke briefly with Kate. Together they appeared constrained and I became emotional as well. JEZ - about 2015hrs, Jeremy took him, in the pushchair for a walk. He walked around the main area of the resort and eventually ended up in the Tapas bar where he used the toilet facility. He was unable to state what time this was. His son was still awake so he walked in the area of the ocean club gardens and walked along the alleyways in that general area. He eventually made his way along Rua Dr Francisco toward the direction of Rua Dr Agostinho. At this time he was walking on the right side of the road passing the Tapas bar area to his left. He noticed the bad street lighting and although it was not completely dark there was enough light to see clearly. As he approached the corner of the McCanns apartment, he saw Gerry appear from the area of the gate. He crossed the road and engaged in general conversation with Gerry j took the children back and got them, you know, bathed and blah blah and got them ready for bed, but that was probably, by that stage that was probably, erm, half seven’ish probably I’d say, by the time we, we went back, if not maybe even a bit later, I’m not sure, but around then, around the seven o’clock mark��? jRussell was still playing tennis she was like ‘Where’s daddy, why is he not putting me to bed��?/FONT> j so they were probably back about, he was probably back about quarter to eight ROB think me and Matt went straight to the, the courts, Dave went off to his apartment and I believe, erm, to Gerry and Kate’s apartment as well. Erm, we then went down to the tennis, erm, it had already started because we were a little late, erm, and, erm, there was Gerry, Dan and a number of other male guests, maybe just sort of another three, two or three people, whose name I may have known at the time but no longer do, I certainly didn’t know them terribly well. And we started off playing doubles on both, both of the two courts, erm, sometimes changing, changing players��? 01.01.51 1578 “So there is Gerry, Dan, yourself and Matt?��?BR>Reply “And Dave and a couple of other guests��? 1578 “You said Dave went to the apartment?��?BR>Reply “Well he did, but only briefly and then, well he went, he went back there and then, and then joined us, so fairly rapidly there was the full kind of compliment of, erm, of, the male adults within the group were playing tennis. And, erm, we played for, you know, a fair amount of time, I mean, in total, we were out there probably an hour and a half nearly, erm, you know, something between an hour and an hour and a half. at some point during that period, erm, all the, the people came back up from the beach, so the kids were up at the, I can remember them being up at the, erm, the netting looking down at the sunken courts. Erm, I say, they may have come down onto the court briefly and, erm, well it’s the point we weren’t playing anything like competitive tennis anyway. Erm, and at some stage Jane, I think, well the kids had had a fairly long day, it had been quite hot, erm, and all that week they were usually absolutely exhausted at the end of the day and ready for bed, erm, and Jane took our children back. I think Matt took, erm, Grace took, sorry, Rachael took Grace. And I think Gerry actually left the court because he had been playing for longer than us, I think he went back a little earlier than me, Matt and Dave. Erm, and Dan, the tennis coach, had also left before we did DP - Err after we had the meal we got some ice cream and then err we decided that we were gonna go up and play tennis so I left err with err Russell, we left the, err the girls at the restaurant and we went up to the, err back up to the Ocean Club. Err I, as I say I’m not sure you know what happened to Matt and Russell at that particular moment but I remember then you know I went over to see err Gerry at the err you know tennis courts, just to see you know what was happening, and err decided that we’d, you know I’d come, come back to play tennis and err Gerry had asked me just to pop in and check everything was alright err with Kate or you know again I can’t remember the exact reason whether he was just making sure it was alright that he could stay there and you know more time but you know he’d asked me to pop in. So I walked back err from the tennis courts, err back to err you know Kate and Gerry’s apartment and the time you know looking at, you know we’ve looked obviously at photographs since then and you know the time that we’ve got that I was you know going to Kate’s about six thirty, err and I went into their apartment through the patio doors. The three children were all you know dressed you know in their pyjamas, you know they looked immaculate, you know they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content and I said to Kate, you know it’s a bit early for the you know, for the three of them to be going to bed, she said ah they’ve had such a great time, they’re really tired and you know err so I say, you know I can’t remember exactly what, what you know the night attire, what the children were wearing but white was the predominant err colour, but you know just to reinforce they were just so happy, you know seeing you know obviously Gerry wasn’t there but they were just all, just so at peace and you know they looked like a family who’d had such a fantastic time and err yeah then I left there, went and got my stuff, went back to the tennis courts and then err there was me, Matt and Russell and I think Gerry played a little, for a little while but he decided that he’d, he’d played enough tennis for that day and err was going back and so it left with me, Russell and err Matt and err Dan who was the, the you know the tennis coach from Mark Warner. Err so we played some tennis and you know we were having a good knock and then it was getting a bit late so err we, you know we left the tennis courts, went back to our respective partners to get ready to go out, you know it was, it was, you know certainly after half past seven that we’d, you know we’d left the courts, perhaps even a bit later than that. Err when I got back err I think because Fiona had done a lot of babysitting and left me playing tennis she said well I’m gonna go for a very quick run so she went for a run on the beach, you know, err got the kids ready, bathed, got them ready for err to go to bed but again you know as we’d got back late err from the tennis courts you know the whole time err for that evening was not, you know later. FP - “I’d say, if we came back about seven, he was about ten minutes after that, so about ten past seven, quarter past seven, something like that”. 1485 “And then you went for your run. So he told you that before you went for your run?” Reply “Yeah, yeah”. Erm, and, yeah, the others, sort of me, Rachael and Jane, with the kids, our kids, were just sort of watching them playing for a bit, we didn’t stay that long that night”. FP - Erm, I’m trying to think, I’d say probably by seven o’clock we were, me and my mum headed back with the kids to start bath time. Erm, and Dave, we left him playing tennis for a bit longer. Erm, I think we’d bathed the kids by the time he got back, probably ten minutes later. Erm, and then I went for a run that night, after the kids were bathed”. it must have been about half past seven”. I had a fairly standard sort of route, I’d sort of go down past the Tapas Restaurant, cut across to the far sort of right side of the beach as you are looking at it and then I would run along the beach full length, come back to the Paradiso Restaurant bit and cut up, erm, I mean, it’s hard to describe, cut up through the shops and then back again. But, you know, it was the same sort of route I did”. “I’m quite slow. It was probably about a twenty or a twenty-five minute run”. “I would have been back by eight o’clock” That day was a really nice day, which is why I wanted to do the run. And I remember the Thursday was a bit of a transition day, as I say, you know, with the weather, it just seemed to warm up, it was sunnier, erm, and it was a very pleasant evening, you know, it was a nice sunny evening, warm”.. MO - so maybe sort of quarter to or twenty to or ten to seven we went down to the court. And we were hoping that Gerry would actually stay and make up the four, because everybody, there was one court that was full of four and then there was a three over he, but he, erm, sort of went back to, erm, to sort of help with, you know, Kate and the kids and didn’t stay to sort of play with us and there was just the three of us and I think the coach stayed and played to make up the four initially, but didn’t want to stay, so he didn’t stay the whole time. But we played then for, I think the best part of an hour, erm, before going back to the apartment. And that would have made me slightly late for putting G***e to bed, so I was sort of, oh I better go, I better finish now because, you know, Rachael will be doing it all on her own”. 00.08.51 4078 “You would be in trouble?” Reply “Well, yeah, and also because, you know, I like doing the, I usually do bath time and Rachael would do the story, so I was quite keen to get back anyway. So half seven we’d normally be trying to get her down to, but she was, erm, awake when I got back so we did the story, I mean, she’d had a bath and been out, but it was just sort of the down time before getting into bed, I’m pretty certain she was still awake at that point when we came back, so we put her down and read stories, erm, she goes down fairly easy, she goes into our bedroom and we take all the stuff we need out of the room before we, erm, sort of put her down and then close the door so we don’t have to go back in, although you often could if you crept in without waking her up. Erm, so that would be sometime between, normally we’d be there at half seven and sort of have an hour to get down, to get, to get ready to go out, so it’d be sort of closer to eight this time 8pm j Ella and Evie weren’t in bed at that point, erm, I think they, it was probably about quarter past eight by the time we actually put them, them in, them into bed. And then I went down to the restaurant just after half eight jthat stage we knew what the menu was, so I’d got Russell’s order but he stayed, because the children had only been asleep for quarter of an hour, he stayed back in the room for a bit longer, just to check that they were definitely asleep before, before he came, came to join, you know, everybody else��? j Kate and Gerry were there already and they were talking to, I don’t know their names, but they were talking to the two people that Gerry played tennis with in, erm, in his group,...Erm, Kate and Gerry were standing up, so they hadn’t sat down at this point jMatt and Rachael came down next together, the two of them, probably a few minutes after, after me, I don’t think it was that long, that long after me. And then Russell probably about quarter to’ish, I think it was, probably sort of five or ten minutes after, after me. And then it was getting quite late again and Dave, Fi and Dianne were nowhere to be seen j Matt went back, erm, but he actually met them coming down. But I think because he was up he thought while he was up he’d go and have a listen just to check, you know, there was no noise from Grace. I think he must have actually been a bit longer, I think we’d actually been there for about quarter of an hour before Dave and Fi, you know, all of us had been there for about ten or fifteen minutes before they actually appeared, so��? ROB -we had to take all of the rackets and b*lls back with us, so, you know, it was relatively late. And I’m not entirely sure what time I got back to, to the room, but, you know, well eventually, me, Matt and Dave all came back. And it was probably the latest that we’d got back and Jane and the kids had been in there for some time. Erm, I’d say it was probably coming up to, you know, not, not far shy of eight o’clock itself I would have probably had a quick shower, helped with the, erm, you know, with the stories and getting ready for bedtime. I know, I know our kids were pretty tired that, that evening, they’d been playing on the beach and had a really, a really busy. But we were running a bit close to our half eight, erm, booking, so the kids were in bed, but they hadn’t been in for long. So I think shortly after half eight, erm, maybe sort of twenty-five to or twenty to, Jane went down and I certainly can recall saying ‘Well you know what I like��? you know, we’d ordered, it was a very limited menu, we’d discussed what we liked each night, and I said, you know, ‘Just order the me the��? ‘Order the X, Y and Z and I’ll be down when I’m happy that the kids are definitely asleep��? And I didn’t stay much longer, to be honest, they were, they were all fast asleep and there wasn’t a noise out of them at all. So I headed down, you know, about quarter to or so, erm, to the Tapas, exiting through the main door on the car park, erm, and double locking it there, the patio was shut and everything down and didn’t see anything particularly remote on the way down, erm, and just arrived as normal. the only people who weren’t there, erm, as we discussed, would have been the adults in five ‘H��? so Dave, Fi and Dianne, who were pretty routinely the last ones there, as, erm, you know, all week. Erm, we kind of sat and, and, and talked, waiting for them. And I can distinctly remember, from the position I was sitting, I was looking towards the apartment block and, erm, you, you could see the lights on in their, in their rooms, inside, and occasionally see people walking about. So there were lots of jokes about the fact that they were still, still not there and probably if we didn’t get a move on they weren’t going to serve us. I arrived about quarter to nine DP - And then we just got ready to go and by the time Fi had got back from the run we’d all had showers, we were all ready to go and the girls were asleep and we were happy to leave the apartment, it was you know it was sort of gone quarter to nine. Err we walked down, the three of us, err you know to the Tapas area err we bumped into Matt, he was walking err back to the apartment and err you know he was, he was, you know semi-jokingly said oh I’ve come to check because you’ve taken so long and you know which actually transpired that they were quite err getting agitated because you know the time the table was booked at half past eight and you know it was approaching nine o��?clock and you know they thought it was, it wasn’t appropriate that we weren’t there you know as early as we should have been. So then Matt carried err back, you know, to the apartment and we went to the table. |
