To my knowledge there has been no footage or written reference to Kate driving whilst in P.D.L. no big deal there.


According to reports Kate had the scent of a corpes on her jeans, cuddle cat and the car keyring also had the scent.


There may be a simple answer to this, but why did Gerry not have the odour?if he destroyed his clothes, then sureley kate would have done the same?


In my opinion Kate had a little more to do with the alleged removal of the body that most people seem to be speculating, why would it necceserely be a man who removed the body as has always been suggested,Kate would be more than capable of lifting a 3 year old,as are most mothers.


It is a slightly different angle to look at this, but could it of been Gerry that fell apart in the first couple of days after the "dissapearence" as he has indeed said he did, until he "Saw the light" in church.Maybe kate was the more calm and measured one?

In this case Kate may well have moved the body on her own or with somebody else,which would explain the scent perfectly.


I.M.O She seems easily cold and detached enough to do this.

interesting. I asked ages ago which keys, car or apartment. If car which car?

You would have flat and car keys separate i think (not on same fob) if only there for a week.

Also the car(s) were shared by the tapas lot.

I think Gerry was careful. Helping Kate but keeping himself out. (just in case things go wrong)

Mmnnn - maybe Gerry is cleverer than we give him credit for. He might have known damn well that the scent on clothes could be incriminating and deliberately got shot of his, and left Kate to take the wrap?

I think Kate made the mistake off giving Madeleine a LAST CUDDLE which any mother would do in the circumstances.


I keep going back to the first appeal they made and watched kate as she made that appeal and it always stood out to me how ANGRY she looked, her body was very rigid, not a drip off emotion on her face, very bizarre.

NO GERRY HAS LEFT MADELEINE TO TAKE THE WRAP !!!

Good point crabby. If they were both initially involved and also both had scent on clothes, they would not dispose of one set of clothes and not the other. When I first switched from pro- to anti-, I reached a conclusion then (which I have sometimes wavered from since) that the simplest possible occam's razor solution might be that only one of the two was involved initially. In that scenario, a large part of the initial motive, which caused the one involved to decide to cover up, would be to hide what really happened from the partner. And that is potentially a strong motive. Prior cases please anyone? I mean prior cases where one of a couple has mislead the other about a child's death?

I'D BE SUPRISED IF THEY WERE MISLEADING EACH OTHER TO A MAJOR DEGREE, THERE WOULD BE JUST TO MUCH TO TRIP UP ON.i JUSTTHINK MAYBE SHE WAS THE MORE CALCULATED OF THE TWO AS TO "KEEP IT TOGETHER" AS IT WERE

Thanks for posting this question again crabby, its one I posted on the MF a while back and got drowned in a flame war between two posters iirc, so was never answered

I have no idea how the scent was all over Kate and not Gerry so will be watching this thread with interest and hope someone has a theory on it I can relate to.

HADN'T REALISED YOU POSTED SIMALAR ON M.F. NEVER WENT ON MUCH EVERYTHING I WROTE GOT PULLED OFF

INTERESTING THOUGH!

I can think of 4 options but there will be more
Either
a) Gerry didn't know at the start
b) Kate held it together better at the start and dealt with the problem with ROB
c) Gerry is very very conniving
d) Gerry agreed to the cover up but refused to have anything to do with the disposal due to potential evidence against him

Maybe b or d is why Kate was so cross with him

Jon Corner said in McCanorama that when they came to the villa to take cuddlecat etc they were even pulling wet washing out of the machine.

Maybe they thought that would wash the scent away? The dogs can still detect cadaver even after a dose of Ariel at 50 degrees though.

Hi crabby, I didnt actually start a thread on it but I asked the question in another thread, like I said there was an argument going on that my little question fell between, will teach me to follow threads and not post after reading OP

I cant remember the title of the original thread or who posted it but it was along similar lines iirc.

I recall there was some discussion about Kates jeans and why the cadaver scent was on them plus further discussion about her actually buying some new clothes while on holiday and a question as to whether she had bought the jeans on holiday or not (which would have blown her claim of having cadaver scent on them while she was working in UK)

That is strange, that Gerry didn't have the scent. Apparently Kate had bought new clothes in Portugal as it was colder there than they had expected, so she couldn't have got this scent from work.

If they were both there when Maddie died, I would think they would both touch her, saying there final good byes, I cannot imagine that Gerry would not touch her at all.

I think they both must have known what happened, I think it would be too difficult for one to cover up from the other. Obrien had the scent of death on his clothes too, but I wouldn't think Kate would tell him and not Gerry.

Also, didn't the body have to be in the apartment for a while for the scent to be traced there? How could one hide the body from the other in that tiny apartment?

Maybe Gerry just was sneaky and binned his clothes or somehow washed the scent off?

I read quite recently (old portuguese papers) that the scent was found on the clothes Kate wore the night Madeleine disappeared. Suggesting to me that Kate may have been cuddling Madeleine's corpse whilst Gerry was out and about looking for a place to store the body. Otherwise, if the bag containing the corpse had to be moved to an adjoining apartment, she would probably lift it up against her body to be able to carry it.

Their expressions on the very first press statement by Gerry and the one afterwards by Kate are very telling in my eyes. Shock and fear in the first one and utter coldness from Kate and gratitude from Gerry in the second one.

One of them did the deed and was left with immediate and/or obvious stains on clothes which were removed and disposed of with the body-the other sat rocking and holding the deceased child, had no obvious stains etc on the clothes and cadaver scents being left behind on clothing, furniture etc either were'nt thought of or known about until later.

Kate drove Gerry to the airport when he left for one of his lone trips-pic was online back last summer but can no longer find it.

Yes that sounds like a reasonable explanation but on the other hand one might argue that if a body leaves scent on one person it would leave scent on the other person?

Interesting. She was reportedly not a driver on the first rental contract for the scenic, but that contract was renewed twice I think, so she could have been driver on renewed contract. Another photo to hunt for.

Hi Miffed, do you have the links to those 2 videos you mentioned?

---------
I'd be interested to see again (not sure if either of these) the early appearance on t.v. where Gerry puts his head on her shoulder, and to me, she looked annoyed......I sniffed a big fat rat then. It looked odd. Don't think I misinterpreted it.

I don't have a clue how to search for videos... still trying though. However, someone else could give it a try ... it's the first two videos where the McCanns officially talk to the press ... one outside Mark Warner, still dark and the other where she pleads with the abductor.
For now I have this <!-- m -->http://web.archive.org/web/20080302125308/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cECrprLqWwQ&feature=related<!-- m -->

--------
Thanks that's the one. Gerry looked awkward, Kate in control.

Unlike this one.

<!-- m -->http://web.archive.org/web/20080302125308/http://salem-news.com/articles/may152007/british_girl_51507.php<!-- m -->

scroll down for video

thanks for those video links. It's surprising how Kate can manage to look so emotionless in the first video considering she apparently thinks her daughter is in the hands of a paedophile!

I think in the second video they did seem anxious and frightened but they would be, wondering if everyone believes she was abducted! They seem a lot more in control in later videos and I wondered if that's because they think everyone believes the abduction theory so they are not so frightened of being caught, more relaxed and self assured.

I watch the "studio" video and think, he did it and she's covering, (like Miffed said, he looks grateful to her), Kate looks more together in this one.

The nightime one, I think he's covering for her, she looks in pieces, he's a bit wavery voiced but taking charge (drags her off at the end ).

We may find out one day.......

And yes, in the later videos they are quite calm....they thought they'd got away with it i.m.o..

I'm thinking along these lines as well. One killed her and stayed away from body afterwards. If the other one was not present when it happened maybe her killer had time to think out story and disposal plan. Other one came home or was present and could not stop it, that person held her for ages while grieving. Calculated decision was made to not turn killer in or killer convinced other that they did not mean to do it or was accident. They are in it together now for the long haul. One either fears the other or is happy to have something on them to control them. Maybe marriage was on the rocks and that person feels they are now bound together.

Does K describe her missing daughter in the past tense "Madeleine WAS a beautiful, bright, funny and caring little girl"

Am I mishearing it, does she say IS or was?

In the first video I mean.

I think Kate says "is".....but then my speakers aren't the best!

No mine arent either ann_chovey

Its quite clear she says "is" afterwards but I thought she said was in the first line she spoke.

ah well nvm, that would be far too obvious anyway wouldnt it

<!-- m -->http://web.archive.org/web/20080302125308/http://www.correiodamanha.pt/comentario.asp?idCanal=181&id=272689<!-- m -->

Perhaps the blue fleece and the jeans that were inside the bag covered with stains and bodily yuck were Gerry's but Kate kept hold of the clothes she had been wearing.

Thanks miffed. That is the first report I have seen which says the scent was on the clothes she was wearing THAT NIGHT (meaning the night of May 3rd presumably). That is IMO significant. Do we have a full description of the clothes the scent was found on? If so we can compare that description with the clothes she was wearing in an available photo at approx dawn on the 4th. If they are the same clothes, that would mean she didn't change clothes between whatever time on the 3rd her clothes acquired the scent, and dawn on the 4th. Whereas if they are different clothes, that means she did change sometime during that period.

I believe it was a last cuddle but although a mistake, relative to the investigation...so far its the only (possible) response from Kate that humanises her!

I remember this being discussed on the MF too. I wondered if Gerry had got rid of his clothes because they reminded him of something he'd rather forget (body disposal) but that Kate liked the clothes she was wearing and kept them. In this scenario, there would be no knowledge on their part of cadaver smell.

Maybe Gerry's clothes got damaged in some way, depending on what happened, and he had to dispose of them.

I still think that he was just careful and let Kate take care of, what ever it was. He does not want to get caught.

I remember this being discussed on the MF too. I wondered if Gerry had got rid of his clothes because they reminded him of something he'd rather forget (body disposal) but that Kate liked the clothes she was wearing and kept them. In this scenario, there would be no knowledge on their part of cadaver smell.[/quote]


But would ....................could Kate keep the same clothes that she had accidently killed and/or hid her daughter in

i don't understand how a parent could cover up and dispose of their kids body if it was an accident with oversedation or a fall or something similar

its not illegal to sedate kids is it? i suppose the little child was not ill but maybe was cos sleepwalked and wanted to make sure she didn't wake and get out of the flat - those patio doors are not locked with a key but a catch type device, even a 3 year old could open them if had seen parents do it

unless she died as a result of finding drugs or something and they panicked be struck off if found out

or if there was some physical violence and she accidentally got in the way i guess they thought could be done for manslaughter

i keep going back to square one so much

Sometimes decisions made in the heat of the incident, late at night while under the affluence of incohol are not the wisest ones.

What seemed a coherent and foolproof way of sorting a problem out... ie... not losing a career, status, houses, freedom, children (all imaginary fears but maybe hyped up by alcohol or more)... in the cold light of day many months on... well it just looks shabby and bad.

i know what you mean but that decision if it happened like that was about their beloved child and possible death - that should have sobered them up pdq and do the right thing if was an accident

WEBSLEUTHS - HELP NEEDED
Ok so that link indicates that her clothes on which the scent was found were the clothes she was wearing on the actual night of Thu 3rd May. What I have done is tracked down the first photos we have after the night of the 3rd, and here we go:
<!-- m -->http://web.archive.org/web/20080302130819/http://www.exposay.com/gerry-mccann-missing-british-3-year-old-girl-madeleine-mccann-in-portugal/p/10561/31/<!-- m -->
<!-- m -->http://web.archive.org/web/20080302130819/http://www.exposay.com/kate-mccann-missing-british-3-year-old-girl-madeleine-mccann-in-portugal/p/10561/32/<!-- m -->
By the way that exposay site is great, highly recommended. Those two photos were taken approx dawn on Fri 4th May I think. So the obvious question is - look at her jeans and tshirt - are those the two clothing items on which scent was later found? You can help as follows: Look through photos on news photo sites (getty, exposay, rex, etc). On what dates were that exact tshirt and jeans worn? When did those two items of hers cease to be worn?

May 6th on exposay she is wearing jeans and has the grey hoodie wrapped around her waist. From that date she has the jeans on several times
Maybe they are not the same jeans, she might of had a few pair with her,

Sorry I do not know how to put the pic of her on line

Thanks dumouchelwolf. I am interested in her jeans and tshirt (but not her hoodie), because they are the two clothing items on which scent was reportedly later found. The tshirt is very distinctive. The jeans can be distinguished from other jeans by the detailed styling and the wear pattern. (I don't care about his stuff because of changing). If you find an image and want to post it:
Right-click on the image and then left click "copy image location" or similar.
Then when you are writing your post, right-click, and then left-click "paste".
Sorry they are such vague instructions, its kinda hard to explain in writing.

Definitely....I think Gerry did it too....I read a thread that someone thought Kate went to Geraghty's to annoint Maddie and had the bible with her, etc. Gerry is more cold-blooded than even Kate is....unless they planned it together.

IMO...Gerry planned and did it....and planned to frame others if the PJ caught up with them. IMO The PJ only accused her of the crime so that she would say, "It was not me, it was Gerry."
IMO Gerry feels he will be a lot better off without Maddie and Kate.

This makes me think that Gerry did it and he could have had blood on him so clothes were removed and thrown out immediately but Kate just prayed, annointed her or cuddled her and forgot about cadaver scent.