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TinLizzy
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Date Posted:12/23/2012 3:02 PMCopy HTML






http://msngroup.aimoo.com/madeleinemccann/mfthreads.msnw-action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=1023&LastModified=4675677968542754138.htm

 
 
smoky
Taken from the MF, just in case it gets lost.

BishopBrennan



Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 36

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: Bags, Chaplins Restaurant, and Murat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copied this directly from the Anorak Forum. Original source unknown. Credible do you think?

SNIP> [from England/CyberSleuths]
ok, have been told some stuff…the blue sports bag isn’t the one seen in any photos. The bag was reported by Gerry as missing when Maddy disappeared. It is not the same bag found in a lay-by near the airport or the one found by fishermen. The information i have comes from somebody in Portugal. The PJ have the bag and have had said bag for months (part of the forensics that were sent to Birmingham). The bag apparently ‘came-in’ to questioning when the McCanns were made arguidos. The police KNOW about the bag and the McCanns know that the police KNOW. Gerry was seen with the bag, he was followed by police putting it into another car (not the rental car)…they followed him and retrieved it. I’m told it’s contents are important but i couldn’t get info on what they were.

Next, they did dine at Chaplins (another restaurant/bar) that is a long, long way from the appartment on the 2nd may. It was here that the Ocean complex people eventually found them on the night of the 2nd may (maddy disappeared on the 3rd)when Mrs Fell a resident had heared Maddy crying for almost two hours and reported it. It is this night that the police are focusing on as my source tells me the police believe it’s this night Maddy died.
The nanny apparently was paid to say she saw maddy on the third and that Maddy was signed into the creche but didn’t attend (from sources remember not confirmed).

The Brit paedo has been elliminated as he hasn’t been in Portugal for over two years. Finally…do you remember Gordon Brown was to prepare the British public for the outcome of the next few months ? this was said at the Lisbon summit…well i and many others thought it was because the McCanns would be charged. However i’ve been led to believe by the same Portugese source it was more about the forensic results from the back of the car and in the appartment. There is a BIG difference between body fluids and bodily fluids..Maddys was supposidly found with some mix of ‘quote’ northern European male.

Also i’m forgetting…the source has also said Murat did know them as he had dined with them at Chaplins restaurant days previous and Kate had been with him at his house when she and Gerry fell out�?big argument and she left and went to Murats. This info is all circulating at the moment, can’t confirm if it’s true or not but it’s certainly something to chew over..

================================

Detective173



Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Posts: 129

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: Cybersleuths discussion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Am posting this reply of Tony Bennett's on Anorak to the 'cyberleuth' claims. The 'Truth for Madeleine' website forum run by Stevo, who also posts regularly on Anorak, is also working on the assumption that Madeleine died/was killed on the night of 2nd/3rd May:

===========================

367 Tony Bennett Says:

December 31st, 2007 at 6:28 pm

re: 277 Tinsel

I’ve never visited Cybersleuths, but here for what they are worth are my observations on your post 277 today:

++++++++++++++++++++

England/CyberSleuths: “ok, have been told some stuff…the blue sports bag isn’t the one seen in any photos. The bag was reported by Gerry as missing when Maddy disappeared. It is not the same bag found in a lay-by near the airport or the one found by fishermen. The information I have comes from somebody in Portugal. The PJ have the bag and have had said bag for months (part of the forensics that were sent to Birmingham). The bag apparently ‘came in’ to questioning when the McCanns were made arguidos. The police KNOW about the bag and the McCanns know that the police KNOW. Gerry was seen with the bag, he was followed by police putting it into another car (not the rental car)…they followed him and retrieved it. I’m told its contents are important but I couldn’t get info on what they were�?

REPLY: If “The bag was reported by Gerry as missing�?is true and if this is also true: ‘The bag apparently ‘came in’ to questioning when the McCanns were made arguidos�? then this would be a major development. But I don’t expect that either the PJ or Team McCann will comment on it.

++++++++++++++++++++

England/CyberSleuths: “Next, they did dine at Chaplins (another restaurant/bar) that is a long, long way from the apartment on the 2nd May�?

REPLY: This is the day I have down for them dining at Chaplins. The consensus is that Chaplins is up to a half-mile (800 metres) from the Ocean Club apartments - about 6 to 8 minutes’ walk according to some. According to the information on the Net published by Chaplins, they are usually open to 2am

++++++++++++++++++++

England/Cybersleuths: “It was here that the Ocean complex people eventually found them on the night of the 2nd May (Maddy disappeared on Thursday the 3rd) when Mrs Fell a resident had heard Maddy crying for almost two hours and reported it�?

REPLY: Mrs Pamela Fenn, I think. The initial reports said Madeleine was heard crying ‘from 10.30pm to 11.45pm’ and that this was on Tuesday 1 May. As time has gone on, it looks like 1 May was an error and that Madeleine was heard crying by Mrs Fenn on Wednesday 2 May. Of course, 10.30pm to 11.45pm is only an hour-and-a-quarter. To think that the poor girl was sobbing away for up to two hours calling out for her Daddy is almost unbearable to think about. I have never seen anything about the Ocean Club staff going out looking for the McCanns on Wednesday night and tracking them down to Chaplins. That would indeed be a sensational development if confirmed and would also blow the ‘half-hour checking’ idea to smithereeens

++++++++++++++++++++

England/CyberSleuths: �?It is this night that the police are focusing on as my source tells me the police believe it’s this night Maddy died�?

REPLY: So do I. Initially the PJ were reported as saying that they were looking at the ‘missing six hours’ from 2.29pm (last photo) onwards. As time has gone on, the strength of the reports proclaiming that Madeleine was alive and seen on 3rd May have looked weaker and weaker.

If Madeleine died/was killed on the night of 2nd/3rd May, then as night follows day these must be true:

* David Payne lied about seeing Madeleine at 6.30pm to 7pm
* The nanny (Charlotte Pennington) lied about seeing Madeleine at the creche (her stories were not actually self-consistent in any event)
* Claims that Madeleien was signed into the kids’ club/register that day would be false
* The famous �?.29pm’ photo (Madeleine by the pool) that Stevo et al have analysed at length would be a fake
* The story of her being seen eating with her family at the El Paraiso restaurant - according to Miguel Matias and his ‘grainy’ CCTV video - would also be false, but then that has ALREADY been exposed a false story produced by a serial con-man
* Gerry McCann lied about his 9.05pm visit to check on Madeleine when he claimed he ‘gazed upon her lovingly and thought how beautiful she looked and how lucky he was’ - with the abductor hiding behind the door as he gazed at her (cough)

++++++++++++++++++++

England/CyberSleuths: The nanny apparently was paid to say she saw Maddy on the third and that Maddy was signed into the creche - but didn’t attend (from sources remember, not confirmed).

REPLY: I am not surprised. If true, I would love to know how much her ‘thirty pieces of silver’ amounted to. And whether perhaps contributions to the ‘Find Madeleine Fund’ have been used to pay her

++++++++++++++++++++

England/Cybersleuths: “The Brit paedo has been eliminated, as he hasn’t been in Portugal for over two years. Finally…do you remember Gordon Brown was to prepare the British public for the outcome of the next few months? This was said at the Lisbon summit…well I and many others thought it was because the McCanns would be charged. However I’ve been led to believe by the same Portuguese source it was more about the forensic results from the back of the car and in the apartment. There is a BIG difference between body fluids and bodily fluids…Maddy was supposedly found with some mix of ‘quote’ northern European male�?

REPLY: I think I’d rather not think too closley about what may have happened

++++++++++++++++++++

England/Cybersleuths: Also I’m forgetting…the source has also said Murat did know them as he had dined with them at Chaplins restaurant days previous�?

REPLY: It’s plain that Gerry did already know him from his reported and televised ‘no comment’ comment in May, and his accompanying body language as he said that. Of course he and Murat knew each other. If he can be evasive about that, so can he be evasive about so much else

++++++++++++++++++++

England/Cybersleuths: “…and Kate had been with him at his house when she and Gerry fell out…big argument and she left and went to Murats�?

REPLY: If I read this right, Gerry and Kate fell out, then she ran off for consolation to Murat? But when?

++++++++++++++++++++

England/Cybersleuths: This info is all circulating at the moment, can’t confirm if it’s true or not but it’s certainly something to chew over�?


wolfecho wrote:
hi to everyone im known as insider1 on mf, clarence was in pdl from the 28th apr,,,he was part of the tapas group as was gerrys brother who left on the night of may 3rd..... i started the clone thread on mf. mm went on the 2nd may not the 3rd as the mccann group stated...

kizzy
Hi insider1/wolfecho, perhaps you can help me with a query in my own mind. Although I have explored the possibility of Clarence/a brother etc being part of the Tapas group (Tapas 9, 10, 11....) I can't figure why Jose Batista (and his wife, Maria Fernandez) didn't say anything about there being more than 9 in the group. He certainly blew his cover and gave away a lot of other information:

"Mr Batista, who served the McCanns and their friends at the tapas restaurant where they were dining on the night Madeleine disappeared, says they could not have seen their apartment from their table, as they have claimed. He also says he was surprised that they apparently made a special arrangement with staff so that they could leave their children alone on four consecutive nights to eat at the tapas bar near their apartments in the Ocean Club complex in Praia da Luz with their friends, dubbed the Tapas Nine. “The group did check on their children regularly,�?he told the Daily Express. “I know that because I often took food to the table and found one of them was not there. It was always the men who went to check, never the women.

Maria Fernandez works in The Ocean Club's other restaurant (the Millennium) and said of Madeleine, “She was like a little angel, very quiet and good as gold. Just a lovely little blonde girl".

Now he also states:

“They always ate here, always at the same time and it was always the whole group ��?four couples and an older woman.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/228 ... -to-blame-

Is Jose Batista a credible witness then? Now that I have re-read the article I can see that it sort of supports the McCanns in some aspects, whilst not being exactly damning in others. So it gives the overall impression of being critical and opposing - but isn't earth-shattering in the areas where he disagrees - if you see what I mean.

Any thoughts anyone?






Home » Forums & Blogs   http://truthofthelie.com/2008/07/theauthor-dumfounded-by-chaplins/

theAuthor: Dumfounded by CHAPLINS

23 July 2008 No Comment
Greetings Gentle John and all Members of this Forum

Not wishing to appear unfriendly, the author thought that a visit here might be opportune. Whether to stay? Well, he’ll have to see what the reception is like.

Yours – author


DUMFOUNDED BY CHAPLINS (OR POSSIBLY VICE-VERSA)
Dumbfound and Chaplins First Appear

 

It seems that the very first public domain reference to Chaplins was posted by dumbfound at 11.49 am, Tuesday, 24 July 2007 on the Daily Express “HAVE YOUR SAY” User Comment Thread. Certainly, that was when the author first saw it mentioned. As the will see, it is not only Chaplins that dumfound introduced, it is children crying, Mrs Fenn, precise times, and a date.

Dumbfound’s Post

Dumbfound was not an MF poster – at least, not under that particular nic. Dumbfound alleged as follows:

LIARS! LIARS! LIARS!

The McCanns dined out every night of their holiday while their poor children slept alone. They are lucky that this happened on the night they chose to dine in the tapas bar and not Tuesday for example when they dined in Chaplins, below their beloved church, near the beach, 8 times the distance away. They never once checked on their children as they claim, ask the staff! Talk to elderly Mrs. Senn [sic] who lives above and she’ll tell you on that particular Tuesday night she had to sit listening to one of the children “screeming [sic], crying” from 22:30 till 23:45. They went to dinner around 19:00h. Those poor, poor children. Yes, they should be prosecuted. How DARE they preach to other parents and try to teach us safety measures to ensure our children are safe from predators? How DARE they take the positions of heroes? How DARE they commit this crime upon poor Madeleine? Yes, they did it.

Thinking that this comment was not for long on this earth, the author took the precaution of saving it,  typos and all. For what it is worth, the original link was:<!-- m --> http://www.express.co.uk/comments/viewall/14347/7<!-- m -->

Apparently, the author was prescient, for a while, only this remained:

**COMMENT REMOVED**
24.07.07, 11:49am
**Comment removed**
• Posted by: dumbfound

And when the Express pulled all McCann related pages, only this:

SORRY, UNABLE TO FIND THAT PAGE

Anyway, to continue the story, a little later that day, the MF poster, cfb, quoted dumbfound on the MF main thread. It was at point that discussion on Chaplins commenced.


Dumbfound’s Post and the PJ Report

One of the things that has always intrigued the author about dumfound is what was his /her source? The dumfound post predates by some time any report in any of the Media. What rings through is that dumfound writes as if he /she has very close knowledge of the events recounted.

Because of this, the author always placed some store in relation to dumfound’s date of Tuesday 1 May. Indeed, forum members may have noted that the author (alone amongst you all, he thinks) has advanced as a working hypothesis the theory that Madeline may have disappeared towards midnight, Tuesday 1 May, 2007, or shortly afterwards. He was encouraged in this by dumfound’s date.

Dumfound it will be noted, reports two key things as happening on 1 May:

  1. Dining at Chaplins
  2. Crying for 1¼ hours (from 22:30 till 23:45) as recorded by Mrs Fenn

Now, the PJ summary report, whilst not mentioning Chaplins, states that:

PAMELA FENN lives on the first floor of the residential block, above the apartment occupied by the  McCANN family. She related that, on 1 May 2007, two days before the disappearance, at about 22h30, she heard a child crying, which by the sound was MADELEINE. The child continued weeping for one hour and 15 minutes, until the parent’s arrival (she heard the door sounds), at about 23h45.

What is interesting, astonishing even, is that the date and times exactly coincide with those given by dumfound . This leads to the thought as to whether dumfound was, as they say ‘a source close to the official police investigation’.


Back to Chaplins

Which leads one to ask whether Dumfound also right about ‘Dining at Chaplins’ on 1 May.

Now it seems that Dumfound may not be literally correct. There are plenty of reports that the McCanns
went to the tapas bar every day except the night of 28 May (although a now-pulled Daily Express article suggested except 28 and 29 May).

For example, the Sun informs us:

That first evening, Saturday, April 28, the group ate dinner at the Millennium Restaurant and Terrace, another Ocean Club property ten minutes away. For the rest of their stay they established a practice of giving the kids tea, playing with them for an hour and then putting them to bed in their
apartments before going out to the nearby tapas bar for dinner.

Nonetheless, the whole nature of a tapas meal is that is consists of a series, or collection, of snack-size portions. So, it’s certainly possible to snack twice, or to snack at Chaplins after drinking at the tapas, or
for that matter to drink at Chaplins after snacking at the tapas.

There remain, however, certain niggles about Chaplins. To focus on a single example, Sol is the newspaper that has undertaken investigative reporting, but there is no mention of Chaplins in its reports

So, let us examine whether there is anything about Chaplins that might attract fun loving holiday makers towards the end of a Tuesday Night?

Quiz Night

Would a quiz night attract you? And if so, what night might quiz night be? Why, quiz night is Tuesday night!

Chaplins inform us:

“FUN” QUIZ NIGHT
every Tuesday, start 10 pm

But, is there any evidence that the tapas 9 enjoyed quizzes? Well, it seems they were not averse to them, for, in relation to the night of 3 May, Sol informs us

An aerobic instructor from the resort entertains the dinner guests at Tapas with a ‘Quiz’. At 9.30 p.m. the game ends, and Gerry invites her to their table, where she stays for half an hour.

Happy Hour

Is there anything that might encourage late evening drinking at Chaplins? Well how about a ‘Happy Hour

Last year, this was advertised as follows:

Later on in the evening, once the food has finished, Chaplins swings into Bar mode and is soon full of people enjoying the music, the great company and perhaps most of all the Happy Hour (11.30pm – 12.30pm) when all drinks are half price.

Some Thoughts

What is interesting about the Chaplins story, if true, is what hangs from it. From the point of public relations, were it to become media mainstream, it could be extraordinarily damaging to the McCann cause.

The suspicious minded may also ask whether anything more serious than crying occurred.

We cannot know, at present, whether Chaplins is true or not, but Amaral has promised explosive revelations in his forthcoming book.

Do you think we may know soon?

Link to PJ Final Report (see pp 41 /42):
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/07/pj-final-report-all-investigation-on.html

Link to Sun article about eating at the tapas bar
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/maddie/article1096610.ece

Link to Sol article 30 June 2007 (translation by astro) re quiz and quiz mistress, also the collection of Sol articles:
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id117.html

Link to Chaplin’s Quiz Night – Please note, having accessed the site, click on the Chaplins link:
http://luzpages.net/page.asp?cat=bars

Link to Chaplin’s ‘Happy Hour’ – Please note, having accessed the site, click on the Chaplins link:
http://www.claryan.com/liamvilla/bars.htm#





 

Faithlilly
 
I've finally managed to work out how to post my holiday pics ( thanks to everybody for their advice ) so I thought I'd start this thread again so it doesn't get lost. The picture below is the inside of Chaplins. The resturant itself is quite small although there is seating outside. The meals are of average quality and what with that and the rather tired decor I can't imagine it would be the kind of establishment the McCanns would frequent if at home.
The staff are very friendly ( the owner is the blonde woman at the back of the picture ). The owners sister-in-law, who is Portugese, is at front of house and is very welcoming. Children are made especially welcome with pictures supplied for them to colour while they wait for their meal and a whole wall given over to their finished work.
While there I did try to engage the staff in conversation about the McCanns but as soon as I mentioned their name there was a deep sigh from our waitress as she raised her eyes skyward as if to say 'oh no not them again' therefore I decided to leave well alone. I did however get the impression that there was more to their antipathy towards the McCanns than was being communicated





When will people get it into their heads that MW’s did not and does not have a listening service in Portugal. This only applies in a few countries like Greece.
The reason for this is because The MW’s in Portugal was spread over a large area with no security walls and some of the apartments were not owned by MW’s.
What they did supply was a creche to leave children in at night so parents could go to dinner with their friends and then pick them up afterwards. It was open each night until about 11.30 or later if you made arrangements for a later pick up.
They also had a babysitting service where a person who normally worked in the creche by day stayed in the apartment and babysat the children.
Mark Warners offered this personal service to everyone, the only drawback being that it cost about £10 per hour. Maybe the McCann’s didn’t think their children were worth paying out money for.
The McCann’s went to another restaurant (Chaplin’s) the previous night which was even further away from where they were staying and they left their children alone even at that distance. Chaplin’s is 800 metres more in distance than the 200 metres it takes to get to the Tapas Bar.
MW’s staff had to go and find them and ask the McCann’s to return to their apartment as one of their children had been crying for over an hour and a half.
The next day MW’s offered them a babysitter for the night (for free) on the 3rd May and the McCann’s cancelled her services and went to the Tapas Bar which was 200 metres away not 50 yards as the McCann’s have stated).
Even after all that crying from their child the previous night, they still left their children alone again the next night. If that is not wilful neglect, what the hell is?


The reason I know this is that I was at MW’s in Praia de Luz at the same time as the McCann’s.
I was there with my daughter and granddaughter at the time Madeleine went missing.
I saw a lot of things while I was there but I can’t say what as both of us have given statements to the PJ.
We alternately went out and searched for Madeleine while her parents stayed indoors.
People on holiday and the people of Praia de Luz searched and some of the people took a week or more off to search for her.
The parents were far too busy going for a jog or playing tennis to do such a lowly thing as search for their own daughter.
When you do eventually learn of what did happen and what was seen, your jaw will drop down to the ground in complete shock.


The McCann’s were at Chaplin’s. I do know that for sure because me, my daughter and granddaughter were there at the time. I didn’t see the McCann’s being asked to return to see to their child because we left fairly early as my granddaughter was tired.

I did overhear some of the MW staff talking about this fact the next morning who were chatting amongst themselves as I was in the reception area waiting for my daughter and granddaughter to meet me there, that was the same day that Madeleine went missing.

Their opinion of the parents attitude of leaving their children alone each night wasn’t exactly flattering and according to them, that’s why MW’s offered them a babysitter for free for the night of the 3rd of May. I don’t deliberately listen to other people’s conversations but if you are standing round waiting for someone you can’t block out what you hear people talking about.

I also overheard a woman telling the police on one of the following days about a child was crying for a long time as I was standing fairly close by, but I didn’t know that she was talking about Madeleine at the time.

All the people on holiday gave statements to the police and anything that was said to the PJ has to stay known only to them until they wish it to be made known to the public or not, so I can’t tell anyone about that either.

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/seeking-vera-of-essex/



TinLizzy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:Chaplins

Date Posted:12/23/2012 3:10 PMCopy HTML


http://truthformadeleine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16

Quiz Night

Postby Stevo » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:41 pm

The Mirror Forums were largely undecided on whether the McCanns visited Chaplin's or not. Does anyone know for sure?
Stevo
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Postby RENATA » Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:21 am

Like everything else in this case no-one knows anything for sure.
RENATA
 
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Postby Tony Bennett » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:39 am

I have seen at least two reports suggesting that the McCanns went to Chaplins Restaurant and Bar on the evening of Wednesday 2 May.

Chaplins has been described as around half a mile (800 metres) away from the Ocean Club apartments. About 8 to 10 minutes' walk.

Up until now, I had thought that the night Mrs Pamela Fenn, the 81-year-old widow, heard Madeleine crying: 'Daddy, Daddy', was Tuesday 1 May.

But the SKY TV programme on Christmas Eve, repeated on Christmas Day, was emphatic in stating that Mrs Fenn heard Madeleine on Wednesday 2 May.

Furthermore, they explicitly said that Madeleine was heard sobbing for 2 whole hours.

I do not think SKY TV would have run with that commentary unless they had solid evidence that Mrs Fenn heard Madeleine for two hours on Wednesday 2 May.

In a sense, it does not really matter whether the McCanns were at Chaplins or in the Tapas bar that night.

To my mind the SKY TV report, though, does point us very much to the night of 2nd/3rd May as the event that triggered, one way or another, the death of Madeleine

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Madeleine is probably dead, and probably died in Apartment 5a in the Praia da Luz apartments. If so, let us learn all the lessons we can from this tragic and evil event. May her death not be in vain
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Postby RENATA » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:27 am

Dear Mr Bennett, in my opinion the Sky program was not "emphatic" about anything pertaining to May 2. Sorry but your use of the adjectives <b>"emphataic"</b> and <b>"explicitly"</b> misleads readers. Can I suggest that most people who watched the Sky program would not agree with the assertion i.e. Martin Brunt put any significance to the night of May 2.

If anyone wishes to see the brief part of the program Mr Bennett refers to, you can click on link below and make your own mind up. The subject merits a total of 21 words throughout the entire program.

Martin Brunt says a neighbour heard Madeleine cry for her parents on a previous night not the previous night. An important distinction?? and they did not mention Mrs Fenn by name, though, granted its fair to assume Mrs Fenn was that neighbour. At no time is the date of this event mentioned in the program. The inference to me re this piece of commentary was to cast doubt on the McCanns claims they regularly checked on their children when out in the evenings. I do think they and their holiday companions did probably lie about this.

<!-- m -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHreJlcmBns<!-- m -->
see about 05.40 into the segment

I do not usually take the trouble to contradict fellow poster's but Mr Bennett has placed himself in the public eye by attempting to bring a prosecution against the McCanns. He also previously tried to bring a case against Michael Barrymore and wrote a book on the subject therefore I'd assume he endeavours to report the facts based on careful research,and reliable sources. I am not attacking his right to instigate these actions ,but I do take issue with innacurate and misleading statements.

I would however agree with his last comment. Lets hope Madeleine's fate is not in vain and parents take heed and do not neglect their children as the McCanns undoubtedly did.
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Postby Daisy » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:10 am

Hello Stevo,

I hope your "invitation" to join this forum was real. Anyhow,here I am.

In my opinion, whether the parents went to Chaplin's or not doesn't really matter now. If the reports about Maddie crying for 2 hours are true, that shows that neither the parents nor any of the other members of the group actually checked on the children every 30 minutes, as they allegedly claim to have done every night.

In my opinion, a lot rests on the "Last Photo", which I believe to be real and not a fake, and, if I remember correctly, in the last few days someone has established that it was in fact taken on May 3 (I might be wrong here, so correct me please if this is still in doubt). Also, Maddie appears to be Maddie and there is no more question as to the length of her hair compared to the Christmas photos and whether it is a different girl or not (or am I mistaken?). If all this correct, she was still alive on May 3 some time around midday (shadows on that photo indicate sun is high).
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Postby Sad Git » Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:00 am

Apparently secrecy restrictions on this case are finally due to expire on January 3rd!

From the "Torygraph":-

<b>"The McCanns are due to find out the details of the case against them on Jan 3, eight months after Madeleine's disappearance"

"This would allow them to speak publicly about the case to boost the worldwide hunt for her." </b>

WTF? We're all going to need ear-muffs if they speak out any louder then they already have been doing!

<b>However, "It is widely believed that the public prosecutor will apply for a 3 month extension."

"They may have to wait a further six months before they discover why they were made suspects in their daughter's disappearance, it was claimed last night."</b>

Claimed by who?

<b>Meanwhile, "Detectives employed by the McCanns are keen to trace a barman who left the resort before Madeleine vanished."

"Known as 'DJ Shifty', Christian Ridout, 32, worked at the Plough and Harrow pub owned by his parents, which is 200 yards from where Madeleine vanished. He lived next door to the first suspect in the case, Robert Murat."</b>

DJ Shifty? He sounds VERY suspicious to me. I bet it was 'im wot did it!
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Postby RENATA » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:10 am

Just watched a brief comment from Mrs Fenn shown on Portugese TV where clearly this elderly lady was fed up with the press intrusion. A camera crew cornered her near the entrance to her apartment. Though rattled and desparate to get away, she categorically stated on camera that she had never talked to a journalist and rubbished the claims that she had done.
She states "<b>I'VE NEVER SPOKEN TO A JOURNALIST", "IVE NEVER EVEN </b> <b>UTTERED A WORD" "ITS ALL RUBBISH". </b> I believe this piece went out on a Portugese newscast on or around 21 August though can't be sure. But Mrs Fenn does intimate it's 3 months after Madeleine went missing. Anyone out there have any credible evidence that this lady or her neice have since spoken with police or media. Anyone know when the first reports about Madeleine crying for 2 hours first appeared?? If Mrs Fenn has been interviewed as a witness by the JP,presumably she would now be gagged under their secrecy laws. This might account for Martin Brunt referring to her as a neighbour. God, hasn't this case grown?? zzzzzzzzzz Arms, legs, feet, big toes, heads, tails, claws, tendrils, antenna. Did Gerry slope off to Dallas during his American trip?- maybe they should dig up the the grassy knoll- yep that'll be where that tennis bag is - defo [}:)] [:)]
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Postby bugalugs1970 » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:23 pm

renata
if my memory serves me correctly it was reported in the third week of may
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Postby RENATA » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:23 pm

Hi bugalugs
Thank you for above.[:)]
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Postby Stevo » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:31 pm

I watched this video yesterday. You can find it on Joana Morais'Blog. She has the link on her front page on that site. Mrs Fenn said something about 3 months and not speaking to any of the press. On CBS Mrs Fenn didn't even open her front door and she uttered words to the effect she was fed up with it all.

I'm not putting much faith in stories that say she complained about Madeleine crying for hours on the night of May 2. However, it could be possible that she complained to Mark Warner's about the crying and someone at Mark Warner/Ocean Club told the press what Mrs Fenn said. To me this is a more logical reason for the story if Mrs Fenn is adamant she never spoke to anyone.
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Postby bugalugs1970 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:50 pm

stevo
i think your right not to put to much truth into the media reports regarding mrs fenn. I do believe that admist all the media coverage the truth has already been partially revealed. i dont believe the full facts will ever been clear but i do believe that it will be proven that madeleine died on the 2/5 due to some form of accident in her parents absence. This theory makes more sense than the one of that she died on the 3/5, it allows the mccanns time to compose, plan tactics and clean up, their claim of abduction on the 3/5 will have diverted anything happening before that time as questionable, from witnesses point of view anyway, it ties in with the evidence of the scent of death on clothes, i do not believe either of the mccanns to be completely deviod of emotion, i would suggest that kate held maddie for some hours after her death as any mother would more than likely do. my mother told me that in the mail today there is an article relating to cuddle cat again, i have always found it strange that kate would wash the cat, myself i would treasure its scent of my child, due to its being dirty. i found it hard to believe that the dna in the scenic was from maddies clothes being put in there during the move. if i had a number of clothes with the scent of my child on i would not just fling them into a boot of car i would treasure them as i would the toy.
i believe the mccanns will be convicted regardless of their high powered defence team, the pj secrecy laws i believe have in fact worked to full effect on this case, allowing just enough to slip out and put the mccanns under immense pressure whilst allowing them to dig theirselves in deeper.
i predict charges will be made extremly soon for not just gm and km but for ro, jt and possibly mo.
Christ i feel as though i need to get therapy this case has developed into a serious ocd for me.................. housework neglected, studying neglected oh my oh my[:D]
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Postby Dancing Girl » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:49 pm

I have not heard about this visit to Chaplin. I thought the McCanns only went to the Tapas Bar!!! Has this been confirmed yet by the staff in the restaurant. Surely it is easy to confirm or deny if someone was there or not!! So now we are saying the McCanns and their friends NOT only went to the Taps Bar each and every night of their holiday, leaving their children alone but went even FURTHER to another Bar/restaurant!! Can anyone confirm or deny this for me??
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Postby bugalugs1970 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:27 pm

dancing girl

there are many stories doing the rounds on this but i put faith in the following

on the 1/5 the mcccanns dined at the tapas bar, between 10.45 - 11.00pm madeleine was heard crying and calling for her father by a Mrs Fenn

on the 2/5 the mccanns dined at chaplins, about a 10 min walk from mw complex.

On the 3/5 they dined at the tapas bar again, this was the night madeleine was "abducted"

my belief is that madeleine was sedated on the 2/5 before the mccanns left for chaplins, on their return i believe they found her dead and so the story goes on from there.

[:)]

"Anything i say is said because i care, i want the truth and justice for those that have suffered"
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Postby Stevo » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:06 pm

Bugalugs1970 I think this scenario makes sense. Perhaps Madeleine cried for several nights - not just on the 1st. I think perhaps the crying on the 1st was the straw that broke the camel's back. Maybe sedation was the only way to deal with it in their minds. Either that or stay in and look after your children properly.

Or...considering it was a typical Latin culture where children are ALWAYS welcome wherever you go, they could have taken the kids with them on their nightly socialising.

This is what makes me bloody angry. Whenever I've taken holidays in Mediterranean Europe, I see children in bars and restaurants with their parents because it's the norm. I ask "why would you want to leave your kids anyway?" I see no good reason to do that at all. It is selfish above anything else. People like that do not deserve to have kids.
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Postby Stevo » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:12 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Dancing Girl</i>
<br />I have not heard about this visit to Chaplin. I thought the McCanns only went to the Tapas Bar!!! Has this been confirmed yet by the staff in the restaurant. Surely it is easy to confirm or deny if someone was there or not!! So now we are saying the McCanns and their friends NOT only went to the Taps Bar each and every night of their holiday, leaving their children alone but went even FURTHER to another Bar/restaurant!! Can anyone confirm or deny this for me??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

First of all, I do not believe there was a quiz night at the Tapas Bar. If you read the stories carefully there's really little evidence of one. We also know there was only 1 other couple (from Hertfordshire) in the Tapas that night with the T9. This is in conflict because the 2 sisters that came forward recently, also said they were in the Tapas Bar. What is happening is that more people are coming along with new tales but because they aren't connecting with each other it exposes the lies and if anything amplifies them.

Considering the McCanns supposedly arrived at the Tapas Bar at 8:35pm, there were too many people allegedly away from the table between that time and 10:00pm to properly have any kind of event - remember they also went there to eat. How could you eat, do a quiz AND go check on your kids every half hour. Clearly it is impossible. I think the quiz night idea came out of the advertised quiz night at Chaplin's.

We haven't heard anything from Ms Chekaya have we? She's the buxom aerobics instructor we heard about but we've nothing from her at all. I believe she's a vital witness and is keeping quiet because the PJ want her to. Mrs Fenn refuses to talk to anyone as does Murat. No wonder - they are all vital witnesses who will blow massive holes in the McCann's and T9 testimony.

Truth For Madeleine

What Really Happened in May 2007?

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Quiz Night

<!-- NOTE: remove the style="display: none" when you want to have the forum description on the topic body -->The weirded out Priest, Chaplin's Restaurant next to the church, Ocean Club, and how and where did they conceal a body if that is what happened?

Postby Dancing Girl » Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:16 pm

Quite honestly I wonder why the McCanns took the kids on holiday to Portugal at all. Between the Kiddies Club and the going out for adult time they hardly spent any time with the kids. What with the tennis lessons and the Tapas Bar!!!! I do not understand it at all as even when Madeleine went missing they STILL left the twins for HOURS and HOURS in the Kiddies Club and they had no idea who had taken Maddy and we all know children are harmed/taken by people they KNOW so it COULD have been an employee of Mark Warner. The kids were in the Kiddies Club morning AND afternoons while the McCanns went JOGGING!!! We have had interview after interview with Uncle John, Aunty Phil, Mr and Mrs Healey etc so it seems there were more than enough people to look after Madeleine and the twins for one week while Kate and Gerry had adult time with their friends!!!!!!
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Postby bugalugs1970 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:06 pm

dancing girl

im a firm believer in actions speak louder than words, they left the twins after maddie's alledged "abduction" because they knew there was no abduction.
I myself wonder why they took the children on holiday, its seems clear that it was not aimed at being a family holiday.

"Anything i say is said because i care, i want the truth and justice for those that have suffered"
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Postby Stevo » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:48 am

Today I was talking to some on another forum and I had mentioned how good the crowd is in here. Small I know, but the quality of postings is what counts. I think I mentioned before that my angle was to create a website and a forum and I was interested in the McCann case as the theme for me to do the technical stuff. A big thanks to the contributors in here for making it all happen. If you can entice others in to join in I think this is becoming a great place to exchange the views.

Thanks guys [:D]
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Postby bugalugs1970 » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:03 pm

stevo

<font color="blue">"We haven't heard anything from Ms Chekaya have we? She's the buxom aerobics instructor we heard about but we've nothing from her at all. I believe she's a vital witness and is keeping quiet because the PJ want her to. Mrs Fenn refuses to talk to anyone as does Murat. No wonder - they are all vital witnesses who will blow massive holes in the McCann's and T9 testimony"</font id="blue">

i think you are 100% correct and it is these testimony's i think that will be crucial in securing the covictions of the mccanns and their cohort's. The only witnesses to date that have publicly spoken are either members of the tapa9 (ie jane tanner) or the ones with which little importance can be placed on what they actually saw, being that what they saw was nothing more than what it was, people going about there business in an innocent fashion.

"Anything i say is said because i care, i want the truth and justice for those that have suffered"
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Postby purrfect_catlover » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:30 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Stevo</i>
<br />Today I was talking to some on another forum and I had mentioned how good the crowd is in here. Small I know, but the quality of postings is what counts. I think I mentioned before that my angle was to create a website and a forum and I was interested in the McCann case as the theme for me to do the technical stuff. A big thanks to the contributors in here for making it all happen. If you can entice others in to join in I think this is becoming a great place to exchange the views.

Thanks guys [:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I bought my forum buddie DANCING GIRL, she is brilliant, just wants answers DO WE GET A PRIZE lol. Mariax
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Postby K.keesha » Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:46 am

I think it is time the T9 went to another quiz night, at PJ HQ.

If (after starting off at the Tapas) they went onto the Chaplins quiz night on Tue 2nd May, the neglect is more serious. A lot further than the back garden.
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Re:Chaplins

Date Posted:12/23/2012 3:23 PMCopy HTML

Posted by Coldwater
Jan 03, 2008 at 4:00pm


Hello everybody.

I've been dabbling with my sources again and thought you might all like to hear the distilled information they have imparted to me - (that which I can reveal, obviously).

Firstly I think it important to say that this investigation is nowhere near closure. As many will know, charges will only arrive when the investigation is officially at an end and not before.

Right now the investigation is focusing on May 2nd 10.00pm through to around 10.00pm May 3rd - a 24hr period in which it is now considered several crimes were committed.

The shift in emphasis to May 2nd is primarily due to the significant lack of independent evidence to support Maddy being seen alive during May 3rd by anyone outside of the TAPAS 9 - and even then only Oldfield actually 'saw' her. Maddy was not present at the creche or children's club. She did not eat with the others and there is NO CCTV footage of her anywhere in the complex or PDL at large beyond the afternoon of May 2nd.

It is also deemed of interest that Gerry missed his afternoon tennis session on May 3rd due to an 'Achilles' injury. It was his unannounced absence which actually drew Oldfield to the apartment and not Gerry asking him to check on Kate. Gerry was not present at the tennis courts and Oldfield went looking for him. Gerry was elsewhere entirely. It is now believed that Oldfield did NOT see Maddy during this brief visit.

The theory is now that Maddy died around midnight May 2nd and that her body was concealed in a bag - Gerry's lost/missing/never had one hold all, sports bag no less. It is believed that this bag was stored in another apartment during some part of May 3rd before initial disposal around the mid to late afternoon of May 3rd. The scent of death was well established and the clean up completed during this time frame. The apartment's cleaner was turned away on May 3rd by Kate McCann I am told.

The forensic material examined and the results are strong in places and weak in others. None are conclusive but highly indicative and along with other evidence form a persuasive case. It is no longer considered that Maddy's body was relocated using the Renault Scenic, but that items pertaining to her and taken from her body were removed, hidden in the tyre well and dumped elsewhere.

As previously reported the PJ have the bag Gerry is so keen now to deny all knowledge of. It is a damning piece of the jigsaw, but not the only one and not the best.

CCTV footage from MW's reception proves that the TAPAS 9 were, for the most part, lying about the frequency of their checks. This is considered an attempt by ALL TAPAS 9 to stall any charges of negligence. The investigation team are also aware of the attempt within the May 3rd confusion to blur the actual time and circumstances of Maddy's disappearance.

They all did eat at Chaplin's on May 2nd and they were contacted at Chaplin's by an employee of MW's with regard to the children - specifically the McCann children. This was followed up immediately upon their return to the MW complex.

Further questioning is to take place shortly and will encompass ALL TAPAS 9 elements, plus others. It is now expected that two others will be made or allowed to request Arguido/Arguida status. These two others are seen as complicit in the aftermath of events surrounding Maddy.

Again, as far as my information allows, I can say that there is NO suggestion of pedophile involvement in any way. The DNA of a North European does not mean that this came from semen or that there is any suggestion of sexual abuse. I think we should all sigh with relief over that. There have been errors in translation and information which may have lead some down this murky pathway.

This case is not finished yet and has a way to run. The culprits will not be found in Spain, Portugal or Morocco.

The above has been gleaned and distilled over Christmas from my three friends and sources. I can elucidate on some points but not others.

Source: <!-- m -->http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0<!-- m -->





Dinner at Chaplin�s - Is this true?
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headlesshorseman



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Report this post Reply with quote

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amplyjustified



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 2580

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Absolute rubbishReport this post Reply with quote

[quote="headlesshorseman"]
Mrs Fenn is a material witness in the case and doesn't seem to like being in that position much. She has - rightly - never spoken directly to the press.

I.[/quote]

************************************************************************************

It seems she has - as it is a direct quote - not something from a 'source' or a 'friend'.


Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.

But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."

http://web.archive.org/web/20071227042431/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....=5[/quote]
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headlesshorseman



Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 1346

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Absolute rubbishReport this post Reply with quote

[quote="amplyjustified"][quote="headlesshorseman"]
Mrs Fenn is a material witness in the case and doesn't seem to like being in that position much. She has - rightly - never spoken directly to the press.

I.[/quote]

************************************************************************************

It seems she has - as it is a direct quote - not something from a 'source' or a 'friend'.


Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.

But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."

http://web.archive.org/web/20071227042431/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....=5[/quote][/quote]

_____________________________________________

Link not found
Must try harder, our little media expert. Laughing
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amplyjustified



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Posts: 2580

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Absolute rubbishReport this post Reply with quote

[quote="headlesshorseman"][quote="amplyjustified"][quote="headlesshorseman"]
Mrs Fenn is a material witness in the case and doesn't seem to like being in that position much. She has - rightly - never spoken directly to the press.

I.[/quote]

************************************************************************************

It seems she has - as it is a direct quote - not something from a 'source' or a 'friend'.


Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.

But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."

http://web.archive.org/web/20071227042431/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....=5[/quote][/quote]

_____________________________________________

Link not found
Must try harder, our little media expert. Laughing[/quote]

**********************************************************************************

It's very easy to check it out using Google - and you don't have to be a Media expert to do that... which I'm sure you know.

What''s all this thing about 'media expert' - is the synapse-challenged kevin2105 filling your head with nonsense?

Why not develop a mind of your own headless - Oh you can't - sorry, forgot- headless - no brains.

Perhaps you could change your name to Very Big Headed Horseman and see and improvement in all-round in performance?

At least then, you wouldn't be Kev's number 2.
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Jazzy



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Absolute rubbishReport this post Reply with quote

[quote="amplyjustified"][quote="headlesshorseman"][quote="amplyjustified"][quote="headlesshorseman"]
Mrs Fenn is a material witness in the case and doesn't seem to like being in that position much. She has - rightly - never spoken directly to the press.

I.[/quote]

************************************************************************************

It seems she has - as it is a direct quote - not something from a 'source' or a 'friend'.


Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.

But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."

http://web.archive.org/web/20071227042431/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....=5[/quote][/quote]

_____________________________________________

Link not found
Must try harder, our little media expert. Laughing[/quote]

**********************************************************************************

It's very easy to check it out using Google - and you don't have to be a Media expert to do that... which I'm sure you know.

What''s all this thing about 'media expert' - is the synapse-challenged kevin2105 filling your head with nonsense?

Why not develop a mind of your own headless - Oh you can't - sorry, forgot- headless - no brains.

Perhaps you could change your name to Very Big Headed Horseman and see and improvement in all-round in performance?

At least then, you wouldn't be Kev's number 2.[/quote]


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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aiseiri



Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 422

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject: Report this post Reply with quote

[quote="amplyjustified"] [quote="headlesshorseman"]
Mrs Fenn is a material witness in the case and doesn't seem to like being in that position much. She has - rightly - never spoken directly to the press.

I.[/quote]

************************************************************************************

It seems she has - as it is a direct quote - not something from a 'source' or a 'friend'.


Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.

But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."


http://web.archive.org/web/20071227042431/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....=5[/quote]

There is also a video from SIC where she says she has never made any such statement and "It's all rubbish".
[/quote]
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si



Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 1267

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:55 pm    Post subject: Report this post Reply with quote

The co-called "retraction" by Mrs F as "reported" in the Mail is a fabrication by Mitchel et al which has fooled you all it seems. If the SIC video proves otherwise please provide a link.
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amplyjustified



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 2580

PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:56 pm    Post subject: Report this post Reply with quote

[quote="aiseiri"][quote="amplyjustified"] [quote="headlesshorseman"]
Mrs Fenn is a material witness in the case and doesn't seem to like being in that position much. She has - rightly - never spoken directly to the press.

I.[/quote]

************************************************************************************

It seems she has - as it is a direct quote - not something from a 'source' or a 'friend'.


Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine screaming below.

But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I didn't even know that family was in there."


http://web.archive.org/web/20071227042431/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pag.....=5[/quote]

***********************************************************************************



There is also a video from SIC where she says she has never made any such statement and "It's all rubbish".
[/quote][/
************************************************************************************

Tried the video link - but just got a blue screen. But I recall her saying it.
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Re:Chaplins

Date Posted:12/23/2012 3:24 PMCopy HTML

Just to get the night into perspective...

See Discrepancies by Topic - Mrs Fenn Heard Crying/Quiz night
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Discrepancies-by-Topic/Mrs-Fenn-heard-crying-Quiz-night-1-836731.html


-Quiz night
-ROB was 'looking after his daughter'
-Najoua the quiz mistress did not recall seeing Kate or David Payne at the table
-There was an empty chair at the table as if someone had eaten and left.
-Kate had a flurry of phone calls in the 15 minutes prior to Mrs Fenn hearing the crying.
-Gerry claims Monday or Tuesday Madeleine came into their room because of Amelie crying.
-On the Chile documentary a hairdresser claims Mrs Fenn told her that they were at Chaplins.

[quote]Najoya
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post233.html#p233
When questioned, she said that during the time that she was there Madeleine’s father did not leave the table, neither did any of the other guests, however, during this time one of the chairs was always empty, that of someone who had had dinner and left, not managing to indicate any identifying element about this person.[/quote]


Three possible scenarios to take into consideration:
Madeleine was alive
Madeleine had died
Madeleine died that night.

Possibilities:
1) One of the T7 was responsible for watching all the children (all apartments were very close), something happened to Madeleine...hence the crying... but they were unaware (hence the 'checking' to avoid one person being responsible and enable to abduction)

2) Maybe the crying was from a child that was being ignored by an adult that was present.

3) We know that Jane Tanner's daughter was 'bathed' in Rachel's apartment at some point....maybe the twins were in another apartment and being watched (another reason for them to claim neglect is to prolong the discussions of the twins in the apartment with Madeleine)

4) Maybe something did happen to Madeleine during that time (ROB, and possibly Kate and DP were not at the table) and it was this time that they may have tried to 'save' her.

I always feel that interviews with Goncalo Amaral are important to keep in mind.

http://madeleinemccann.aimoo.com/Goncalo-Amaral/Drugs-1-925590.html

Q: Do you think the children were sedated?

A: There is no doubt.
(Here he told an anecdote: that Kate called a colleague of Gonçalo Amaral's in the PJ, in August, to ask them to check the twins for traces of sedation. Apparently Kate was alone when she called, and a bit upset. That same afternoon, Gerry called and cancelled the request.)

Q: What do you think is the meaning of the blood behind the sofa?

A: Possibly from an attempt at resuscitation.

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