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MadeleineMcCann > DISCREPANCIES > When Did Madeleine 'Disappear' BEFORE 5.30pm or AFTER? Go to subcategory:
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TinLizzy
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Date Posted:10/14/2010 12:11 PMCopy HTML

I have found another witness statement claiming to have seen Madeleine

I am a little confused by the contradictions regarding the parents and wonder if ths could be a translation issue?

Sorry, c/p acting up again...so unable to highlight.

I will add her to the list starting on Page 13 of this thread

Processos

Volume II

Pages 383 - 387


Kirsty Louise Maryan

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 14H30
Child Educator
British (translated by Robert Murat)

Concerning the issue of the process said;
. That she comes to the process as a witness;
. States that she does not know the Portuguese language and is accompanied by interpreter, Robert James Queriol Murat, translator;
. That she has been in Portugal since the 21st of March, the date in which she began work, of this year, in the establishment known as the Ocean Club, situated in Praia da Luz, in Lagos (Algarve) where she works as an infant educator in the aforementioned establishment, conforming to a work contract previously signed in London. Clarifies that, last year, she began her work in this establishment where she has worked from July to October. The deponent further clarifies that in the period between 21 May 2007 and 07 May 2007, she worked with children between the ages of 6 and 10, known as the ‘Junior’ group, which is made up of 7 children of both sexes;
. States that her hour of work is very flexible, rotating and coincides with the weekly plan of the children’s activities. Because she is asked, she clarifies that she had formal training in England, for two years, in order to exercise her child educator functions;
. The deponent further clarifies that the Junior group does not find itself subdivided from the other groups, in that, at this moment, there are not enough children that permit it;
. [color=#BF0000]relative to the facts of the investigation the witness clarifies that in her daily schedule mentioned she only, on one occasion, had contact with Madeleine McCann, for about 30 minutes—who was treated as Maddie—in that she had to substitute for her colleague, who, at that time, was responsible for the group whose name is Emma, as [size=120]she had to go to the Tapas to take care of the refreshments of Madeleine’s group. For this, the deponent had the charge of accompanying that group towards the beach until the MiniClub where they stayed for a few minutes, and from where they left for the restaurant, mentioned above, in order to have dinner. She clarifies that when Madeleine ate [color=#BF0000]her food, her parents were close and accompanied her; [/color][/size]. Questioned, she states that Madeleine McCann related to the group of children “MiniClub” who are supervised by a colleague of hers, whose name is Amy, and who coordinates her workers, for who she only knows first names, Cat and Emma, employees who worked with the group during the week in question, from 29 April to 04 May, 2007;
. Questioned, she states that the minor in questions appeared to her a calm child, happy, but quiet. States that Maddie was a very pretty child, notwithstanding, she did not stick out for this fact. [color=#BF0000]However, as she was calmer and shier that the others; she furthers that the same child, from what she saw, was a child who did stick out, precisely [/color]. Questioned, she furthers that she had no contact with [Maddie’s] parents; [/color]
. That on the 03 of May, 200, at around 22h30, after having left the apartment where she is living, close to the establishment mentioned, together with two more colleagues, also residents there, whose name are Leanne and Sarah, she found her colleague Amy. That during their discussion she was informed that Madeleine McCann had disappeared and that they were looking for her. For this reason, together with her colleagues, they also began searching for Madeleine McCann;
. That during the search she carried out, together with her colleagues (employees of the Ocean Club) others were also participating from the establishment ion question;
. Subsequently, she cannot precisely state the hours but indicates that at around midnight, she noticed that the locale also consisted of local authorities who were taking notice of the occurrence and initiating respective measures for this type of situation;
. Questioned, the deponent states that the searches made by elements of the Ocean Club terminated around 04H00 on the following day, 04 May, 2007, to negative results. That morning, close to 08H30, the began searching anew in the complex, and the deponent was with a group who looked for the child in a part of the tourist complex;
. [color=#BF0000]Questioned, the deponent states that she did not have direct contact with the minor at issue, Madeleine McCann, and is not aware of her habits or that of her parents, [/color]nor was she told about any strange situation regarding the child or f another period of time in which she worked in Portugal;
. It was about one week ago, on a date for which she cannot be precise, while she was accompanied by her friend Leanne, and going in the direction of her residence, on a street located close to the building where she lives, when they were cornered by an individual who passed by them, very slowly, at the wheel of a vehicle of make and model she did not know but the time but it did not seem recent. At passing, the individual invited them for a beer, to which they quickly declined. She adds that she did not pay the individual much attention, so that he would not continue to bother them, but this fact only allowed her to retain his physical characteristics—he had short, black hair. Urged, she states if she was confronted by this person or his photograph, she would not be capable of identifying him. That she did not observe any other characteristics signs of the individual like the vehicle that he drove. A few days later, in conversation with her colleagues, Leanne, Cai and Rhiannon she was told that an individual in a white commercial vehicle, had cornered them. That in none of these situations was it possible for Leanne to capture the license plate of the commercial vehicle mentioned above. Questioned, she states that she saw never saw the above referenced individual again;
. Questioned, the deponent states that beyond this situation, on another occasion, an event caught her attention. An individual of the male sex, in Praia da Luz, next to a café, whose name she does not know, was playing a guitar until the day of the facts, now under investigation. on the night Maddie disappeared and while she was involved with a group searching, mentioned prior, they encountered a vehicle, whose make and model she does not know, of while colour, commercial, parked on top of a hill, where, she cannot identify. At this point, some of the group elements banged on the window of the vehicle and the back doors and saw the person who habitually played the guitar on the beach. He was covered with blankets, reading a book and drinking a beer, with the help of a flashlight. Questioned, they did were not able to observe in detail the interior of the vehicle. She add that the individual was asked whether he had seen a minor of about four years of age and the same responded, jocularly, that on that night, no one knocked on the doors of his vehicle;
. For the reason she was asked, she state that she never spoke to anyone who were not her colleagues, regarding the children with whom she worked;
. Adds that she has no knowledge of any type of situation which she finds strange and/or another which could be directly or indirectly related to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann;
. Nothing more said, having read the statement, finds it in conformity and signs it;
. The document is duly signed by me, Pedro Florindo, an Inspector with this Polícia Judiciária[/quote]

Unless I am misunderstanding her statement, it appears that she accompanied Madeleine's group to the beach in the afternoon (no day mentioned - according to the activities sheet they went to the beach Tuesday for ice cream trip at 2.30-3.30 and beach play 3.30-4.30 but tennis was on the activity sheet for onday although Georgina quotes it as Tuesday so how reliable is this activity sheet and what about the mini dance after the beach trip?) but does that mean that Catriona was not there that day and if so, could this happen more than once where Catriona was not in charge of the children?

[img]http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/HiDeHo1/lobster30thapril.jpg[/img]

Can anyone explain this?

These times are very different from the activity sheet and she does not mention the mini sail?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm

[quote]Beach
Catriona told us that the only days that they went to the beach was on Tuesday in the afternoon (1st May 2007) between 15.30 and 16.30 and on the following day Wednesday  at the same time.
Catriona Baker page 870[/quote]

Maybe that is why the two afternoon squares are highlighted in beige even though one is listed as grass time.

What happened to the ice cream trip at 2.30 on Tuesday?

Was there a question in the police investigation about what Catriona had stated, hence they needed to build the timeline pages?

Now I am really confused...

the 'tables' show Kate as picking Madeleine up at 12.25pm and dropping her off at 2.50pm (after their trip with the twins to the beach).

The ice cream trip was scheduled for 2.30 so they would have already left for the beach.

Creche records show Gerry picked er up and dropped her off at 2.30pm

Are the tables according to what Catriona told them?
Table for Tuesday
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Diagrama-de-Entradas-e-Saidas-d-%20Infantario/OutrosApensos12Anexo59.jpg

Creche records for tuesday
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/CRECHE/Processo-pdf01-pages-107-111[105-109]/processopdf01page110-CrecheRecords1.jpg

I always thought Tuesday was odd ...

Can anyone explain this?

TinLizzy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #1
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Re:BEFORE: Is Catriona's statement credible?

Date Posted:10/14/2010 12:12 PMCopy HTML

From a post on the previous page, here is a summary I have some questions about.

From Kirsty's statement...
Did she replace Catriona taking the children to the beach?
Did they only go for a few minutes?
Were there so many children going to the beach that she didn't interact with Madeleine?

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post152.html#p152
Kirsty Louise Maryan

[quote]relative to the facts of the investigation the witness clarifies that in her daily schedule mentioned she only, on one occasion, had contact with Madeleine McCann, for about 30 minutes—who was treated as Maddie—in that she had to substitute for her colleague, who, at that time, was responsible for the group whose name is Emma, as she had to go to the Tapas to take care of the refreshments of Madeleine’s group. For this, the deponent had the charge of accompanying that group towards the beach until the MiniClub where they stayed for a few minutes, and from where they left for the restaurant, mentioned above, in order to have dinner. She clarifies that when Madeleine ate her food, her parents were close and accompanied her; [/quote]

She claims she was calmer and shier than the other children.

. [quote]Questioned, she states that the minor in questions appeared to her a calm child, happy, but quiet. States that Maddie was a very pretty child, notwithstanding, she did not stick out for this fact. However, as she was calmer and shier that the others; she furthers that the same child, from what she saw, was a child who did stick out, precisely . Questioned, she furthers that she had no contact with [Maddie’s] parents;[/quote]

She didn't have direct contact with her.

[quote]Questioned, the deponent states that she did not have direct contact with the minor at issue, Madeleine McCann, and is not aware of her habits or that of her parents, [/quote]

I am having trouble visualising the scenario.

---------------------------

In the police 'tables' Catriona claims they only went to the beach twice (not mentioning the mini sail)
According to the activity sheet the times she gave for the beach trips showed it was grass time and the ice cream trip was not within the time period mentioned.
There is also a discrepancy between the time Madeleine was dropped off on Tuesday and WHO dropped her off.

Did the police create the 'tables' because of the discrepancies.

What date were these tables created and where did they take her statement of only going to the beach twice in the week?

12 Outros Apensos Vol XII Annex 59
 
PAGE 59
 

[quote]Beach
Catriona told us that the only days that they went to the beach was on Tuesday in the afternoon (1st May 2007) between 15.30 and 16.30 and on the following day Wednesday at the same time.
Catriona Baker page 870[/quote]

See post on previous page for more info...

Could this mean that Catriona's statement about the mini sail on Thursday may mean it did not happen and was she wasn't  there every day?

Why in the comments to the police did she not mention the mini sail?

Are the comments in her first interview about the mini sail part of the 'change' she made to her statement changes when she made her Rogatory?  (sorry Snowy I haven't checked on your suggestions yet...the details of her returning for her interview three times is on another computer)

Are the beige squares on the Activity sheet according to what Catriona claims as beach trips even though one shows as grass time?

On May 10th she DOES mention mini sail.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post1453.html#p1453
[quote]Processos, volume IV TOC, pgs. Pgs. 870 to 883

External Diligence carried out with Catriona Baker regarding Madeleine’s outing to the beach

Date: 2007.05.10
Place: Praia da Luz, Lagos
Officer responsible: Manuel Pinho, Inspector

Description and result of diligence

On this date, in the company of my colleague Joao Barreiras and with Catriona Baker, the nanny responsible for the missing minor, we reconstructed the locations and their movements upon leaving the resort, in the direction of the beach.

We were told by Catriona, that in the last days they went to the beach on Tuesday afternoon (01 of May 2007), between 15H30 and 16h30, on Wednesday (the next day) at the same time and on Thursday between 10 and 11h00 (see attached map).[/quote]

Thursday police 'table' is missing

(Pages 63 and 64 are missing)

TinLizzy Share to: Facebook Twitter MSN linkedin google yahoo #2
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Re:BEFORE: Is Catriona's statement credible?

Date Posted:10/14/2010 12:14 PMCopy HTML

We are supposed to believe Catrionas statement that she took Madeleine to mini sail on Thursday morning.

Why did the police feel it necessary to create the Diagram of Events and why does it say that Catriona says the ONLY days they went to the beach was Tuesday and Wednesday.

It seems we are not the only ones to question what happened at the creche during the week!

Why is the Diagram of Events for Thursday missing (page 63 and 64 missing) and the creche details for Sean and Amelie on Thursday morning  missing?

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm
12 Outros Apensos Vol XII Annex 59

[quote]Beach

Catriona told us that the only days that they went to the beach was on Tuesday in the afternoon (1st May 2007) between 15.30 and 16.30 and on the following day Wednesday at the same time.
Catriona Baker page 870
01-05-2007 15.30.00[/quote]

Seems a possibility that Catriona 'remembered' and added the mini sail to her original statement when she changed them during the Rogatories.


http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic9355-280.html
[quote]
[color=#BF0000]The statements that the nanny gave to the police raise doubts.[/color] After Maddie’s disappearance, she was heard by the PJ in Portimão. One week later, she was transferred to another location by her employers. Soon afterwards, she returned to England. At Leicestershire police, she was also heard, but corrected the statements that she had given in Portugal.

“I was allowed to refresh my memory by reading the translated version of my original statement to the Portuguese police”, one can read in the report that was taped by Leicester police. The contents of the nanny’s statements was such that she was heard three times on the same day, and had to have her memory refreshed. At Leicestershire police headquarters, Catriona Baker was heard by detective Gierc between 10.09 and 10.54 a.m. on Monday, the 14th of April 2008. Between 11.57 and 12.12 a.m. on the same day, she was heard again by the same detective and between 1.35 and 1.45 p.m. on the same day she was again questioned by the same detective[/quote]

The credibility of Catriona's statement is crucial to confirm that Madeleine was alive at 5.30pm.

All of the other statements have been shown to be questionable and do not show (relative) PROOF that it was Madeleine they saw.

If Catrionas statement is questionable (which the above shows) then why should we believe Madeleine was alive at 5.30pm on Thursday?

TVMais: At what time did Maddie leave the crèche?
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/11/tvmais-at-what-time-did-maddie-leave.html

[quote]In Portugal, the experts that can evaluate calligraphy are from the PJ. It was explained to Tvmais that the crèche’s reports reveal inconsistencies in the writing. One of the doubts that the analysts raise concerns the identity of the authors of the form filling and their signatures in the form. The nanny’s signature and her handwriting appear on the sheet where only the parents were supposed to sign[/quote]

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